# The problem with porters and stouts (craft beer) that no one wants to recognize **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** beer\ **Created:** [March 5, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463 "2017-03-05T07:35:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/1 "2017-03-05T07:35:19Z")
OK, think of your favorite craft brewery. Excellent. Now think of all the hoppy ales they offer: APAs, IPAs, DIPAs, Belgians, etc. It’s a few, right? Now think of all the porters and stouts they offer… It’s usually a couple at a time at most. Sure, you have your standard stout or porter, oatmeal stout, Baltic porter, milk stout, Russian imperial stout, and something with coffee in it. Even though coffee is a flavoring, we’ll give it a pass here as a standard style as it’s really, really common. What you typically _won’t_ find at your favorite brewery is five different porters distinguished by their hops and grain profiles. I.e., no variety analogous to the different hoppy ales your brewery produces. The reason? OK, here comes the uncomfortable truth: **Porters and stouts largely taste the same.** The first porter I tried was Anchor Porter in 1998. So dark, so rich! I loved it. I tried one a couple years ago, and it’s still good, since “porter technology” has not vastly improved since the late 90s. What _has_ changed is dumping every kind of flavoring into porters and pretending it’s something amazing. Sometimes it works. I had a ghost pepper stout at Union Brewing in Carmel, Indiana, that blew me away last year. I’m a fan of Three Floyds’ Alpha Claus Christmas Stout. I also love their Backmasking oatmeal stout. But their Moloko milk stout and Wigsplitter coffee stout don’t do anything for me. Hey, I know that it’s just me, but barrell-aged stouts make me want to barf–literally. One day my gf and I had half a bottle each of Founders’ Breakfast Stout and Backwoods Bastard. I ended up with extreme nausea for like _six hours_ because of that. I have no idea why this is, as I drink whisky straight all the time (if anyone cares to speculate, I am genuinely curious why this stuff makes me sick if I drink it in any volume). I will still drink little flight pours of barrel-aged stuff as I find the flavor intriguing in small amounts. At the end of the day, do I want to try every variation of porters and stouts with coffee, chocolate, and God-knows-what-else thrown in to be “different”? Not really. I do like dark beers, but they are not, IMHO, suitable canvases for beer amazement. For that, I do prefer hoppy ales, lagers, and more subtle styles. **TD;DR: Porters and stouts taste basically the same, so they add a bunch of flavorings to mix stuff up, but that only works to an extent.** Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/2 "2017-03-05T08:57:56Z")
To my tastes, porters and stouts are fine just as they are. They don’t need adulteration. Any attempt to add coffee to them is an abomination. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/3 "2017-03-05T10:40:25Z")
When you find a unique one, it’s sublime. I disagree that they’re all the same, but I do think that many of them are pretty much the same. ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/4 "2017-03-05T12:17:45Z")
The fact that many taste similar is fine with me, 'cause I really like them. I don’t always understand the ongoing, unending desire to improve or change something that is wonderful just as it is. Not just beer, any product. I suspect it has something to do with generating more revenue. mmm ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/5 "2017-03-05T13:48:44Z")
I agree, which is why I’ll usually only order a stout if it’s on the nitrogen tap. (and I’m the only one around here that’s not into the extreme bourbon barrel aged stouts) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/6 "2017-03-05T14:04:39Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > …Any attempt to add coffee to them is an abomination. I jost looove your user name and post combo. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/7 "2017-03-05T14:20:34Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > When you find a unique one, it’s sublime. I disagree that they’re all the same, but I do think that many of them are pretty much the same. Mmmm Alaskan Smoked Porter. Damn I wish I could find it around here. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/8 "2017-03-05T14:36:19Z")
I love a good old fashion Porter. Don’t love the more modern ones like the Great Lakes entry. The inexpensive **Yuengling Porter** is my go to drink. The **George Washington Tavern Porter** takes pride in being an old fashion tavern porter and it is excellent. **Saranac Caramel Porter** is a tasty variant that is guilty of the OPs complaint but when I can find it I quite enjoy it\*\*. Breckenridge Vanilla Porter\*\* is another excellent choice. **Founders Porter** stands out as a compromise between a tasty porter with all the assets of a porter and yet modern tones and sensibilities to it plus a higher than average alcohol content. The genius of Porters, Stouts and other old style Ales is they do not need to be icy cold, can be savored and drank slowly if desired and are rich and full of flavor. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/9 "2017-03-05T14:42:35Z")
I’m always happy with a Guinness stout or a Sam Smith Taddy Porter. I’m not one to seek adventure every time I have beer. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/10 "2017-03-05T14:50:20Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The fact that many taste similar is fine with me, 'cause I really like them. I don’t always understand the ongoing, unending desire to improve or change something that is wonderful just as it is. Not just beer, any product. The things you love wouldn’t exist at all if people weren’t always trying something new. > [@](#): > > I suspect it has something to do with generating more revenue. Which would imply that in general humans want to try new things. That’s why there’s a market for it. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/11 "2017-03-05T14:53:32Z")
I disagree that they all taste the same. The high roasted malt content gives them a similar profile, but the other grains they select and the yeast used affect the mouth feel and alcohol flavor greatly. There are dry porters and stouts, and some very sweet ones. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/12 "2017-03-05T15:05:44Z")
Porter and stout taste very different to me. I _hate_ porter - it tastes like wine to me. I love stout, but only the dry/bitter style. I don’t like sweet stouts, e.g. Murphy’s. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/13 "2017-03-05T15:10:51Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I’m always happy with a Guinness stout I love [Guinness Extra Stout](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ur-D0hD7AxY/T1cZj_jFVPI/AAAAAAAAAe0/U9XMF54zX0g/s1600/XJurR.jpg). But it’s hard to find for some reason. [Guinness Draught](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gUCUxIeA9cA/UUZOCNihe0I/AAAAAAAAB-E/8jVP7eoH00A/s1600/Guiness+Draught+Stout+2013.JPG) is much more common. But it’s a sweet stout. Yuck. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/14 "2017-03-05T15:24:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I love [Guinness Extra Stout](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ur-D0hD7AxY/T1cZj_jFVPI/AAAAAAAAAe0/U9XMF54zX0g/s1600/XJurR.jpg). But it’s hard to find for some reason. [Guinness Draught](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gUCUxIeA9cA/UUZOCNihe0I/AAAAAAAAB-E/8jVP7eoH00A/s1600/Guiness+Draught+Stout+2013.JPG) is much more common. But it’s a sweet stout. Yuck. The first is a Guinness Extra Stout. (\<- ETA, I see you just edited that part). The latter is the regular Guinness. Guinness Draught is not a sweet stout. It’s an Irish dry stout. I don’t particularly like sweet stouts (which get their sweetness typically from the addition of lactose, which is why they’re also known as milk stouts.) And the difference between stouts and porters is a bit nebulous and basically boils down to what the brewer wants to call it in the end. Stouts are originally a type of porter (originally known as “stout porter,”) but then the end of the name got lopped off. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/15 "2017-03-05T15:44:41Z")
The interesting thing about Guinness is that they use a sour mash for part of the blend that constitutes the final beer. [See here](https://www.fivebladesbrewing.com/guinness-secrets-revealed/). That part I knew. However, apparently they also brew their beer at high gravity and then dilute it down to ABV levels based on the product they’re packaging. According to that blog post, the Extra Stout and the regular Guinness are the same beer, just packaged at different ABVs (although he’s not definitive in his statement.) Also, another key difference between the two would obviously be their method of “carbonation.” The Extra Stout bottles are the big CO2 bubbles, but the Draught is the small nitrogen ones, so you get quite a different mouthfeel between the two. Perhaps that is playing into your perception of it being “sweet”? ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/16 "2017-03-05T16:34:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I agree, which is why I’ll usually only order a stout if it’s on the nitrogen tap. I’ll take this opportunity to pimp what I consider the elixir of the gods, [Left Hand Nitro Milk Stout](http://lefthandbrewing.com/beers/milk-stout-nitro/). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/17 "2017-03-05T17:57:30Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Mmmm Alaskan Smoked Porter. Damn I wish I could find it around here. My local Costco occasionally carries it. I don’t believe that there is any meaningful distinction between stout and porter except that it a place has both the latter will be lighter. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/18 "2017-03-05T19:01:28Z")
The Asbury park brewery has a very tasty stout. It starts with a nice head that disappears quickly, has no ashy overtones and is really a Porter they call a stout as most people don’t really know what a Porter is. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/19 "2017-03-05T19:07:32Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > **TD;DR: Porters and stouts taste basically the same, so they add a bunch of flavorings to mix stuff up, but that only works to an extent.** I’ve never enjoyed drinking any kind of beer with any kind of added flavoring, and that includes a lime wedge. I like beer-flavored beer. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463/20 "2017-03-05T23:02:42Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > The Asbury park brewery has a very tasty stout. It starts with a nice head that disappears quickly, has no ashy overtones and is really a Porter they call a stout as most people don’t really know what a Porter is. The differences really are nebulous. Originally, a stout was just a stronger version of a porter. Some say it’s the presence or not of roasted barley, but that’s [not historically true](http://allaboutbeer.com/whats-the-difference-between-porter-and-stout/). A stout is traditionally just a strong porter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-porters-and-stouts-craft-beer-that-no-one-wants-to-recognize/781463.md?page=2)