# The Problem with "RPGs" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459 "2016-05-23T14:31:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/101 "2016-06-02T03:07:31Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > What happened was more like a bunch of people holding a memorial service on a public beach, then having another group of people find out about it, go to the public beach and spend the entire time making as much noise as possible for the express purpose of ruining the memorial service. No, if you’re going to use that analogy it’s more like they decided to hold a ‘memorial service’ on a public beach, then told everyone on the beach that they weren’t allowed to swim or make sandcastles or sunbathe or else the beachgoers would be called ‘assholes’ for doing beach stuff at the beach. And to make it complete, there were non-swimming/sandcastling/sunbathing areas of the beach they could have gone to but chose not to. They chose to hold their service in a PVP-enabled part of a game and to declare other people playing the game to be assholes when they actually played the game. It’s gross, manipulative, and highly disrespectful to the friend who died to use their death for that kind of point scoring. > [@](#): > > One does not need to break a rule to be an asshole. And breaking a rule that some asshole made without any justification doesn’t make one an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/102 "2016-06-02T03:07:35Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > If you can declare ‘oh, this is a memorial service, you’re not allowed to attack us until we want to’, how far do you take it? All the way down that slippery motherfuckin slope is how far I take it! WHEEEEEEEEEEEE! Or, y’know, I ask people to use some goddamned sense and show some decency. If someone starts abusing the idea of the memorial service, ignore it then. Otherwise, recognize that you’re dealing with actual human beings mourning a death, and show some goddamned decency. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/103 "2016-06-02T03:20:51Z")
Oh, whatever. The act of holding the service did not magically preclude the rest of the server from playing the game as you are somehow implying. They specifically organized for the stated purpose of disrupting the memorial service of a dead human being. Why? Because they could. Because it would be fun. Because there are no consequenses on the Internet. Seriously though, this has been rehashed to death elsewhere on the Web. The general consensus seems to be that: 1. The funeral folks should have seen it coming. 2. The raiders did not violate the Blizzard TOS. 3. They were huge dirtbags anyway. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/104 "2016-06-02T15:56:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Or, y’know, I ask people to use some goddamned sense and show some decency. If someone starts abusing the idea of the memorial service, ignore it then. Otherwise, recognize that you’re dealing with actual human beings mourning a death, and show some goddamned decency. I would like people to use some goddamned sense, like not holding a memorial service in an open PVP area in a video game. And I would like them to show some goddamned decency, like not using their friend’s death to try to gain 15 minutes of internet fame as ‘victims’ of PVP on a PVP server in a PVP area. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/105 "2016-06-02T17:15:24Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > No, if you’re going to use that analogy it’s more like they decided to hold a ‘memorial service’ on a public beach, then told everyone on the beach that they weren’t allowed to swim or make sandcastles or sunbathe or else the beachgoers would be called ‘assholes’ for doing beach stuff at the beach. And to make it complete, there were non-swimming/sandcastling/sunbathing areas of the beach they could have gone to but chose not to. > > They chose to hold their service in a PVP-enabled part of a game and to declare other people playing the game to be assholes when they actually played the game. It’s gross, manipulative, and highly disrespectful to the friend who died to use their death for that kind of point scoring. What I gathered from that was that the group holding the memorial thought their actions extra special if they could get a bunch of strangers to not attack them while in a PVP area. Why else would they unequip all their armor? The others were still dicks for attacking though, I’m not a fan of PvP in my RPGs so I don’t get the need to attack random people for fun. They should have held it in a town or someplace safe though ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/106 "2016-06-02T17:58:59Z")
I wasn’t involved, and I only ever played WoW for a few months back around 2011 (I think), but I’ve been doing some research on the raid ever since this thread started. > [@Pantastic](#): > > And I would like them to show some goddamned decency, like not using their friend’s death to try to gain 15 minutes of internet fame as ‘victims’ of PVP on a PVP server in a PVP area. > [@Pantastic](#): > > It’s gross, manipulative, and highly disrespectful to the friend who died to use their death for that kind of point scoring. Harsh words. Strong words. > [@](#): > > In a 2009 interview with Mr Internet, then Guild Master of Serenity Now, Matt Kment, discussed the frame of mind for both conducting the raid and making the video. > > "We did it mostly for attention,” the guild master explains, “and for our fifteen minutes of fame.” The video, he goes on, they used as a recruiting tool to advertise their guild and initially threw it up onto Google Video; however, after they modified the title with sexually explicit keywords in order to receive more views, Google decided to shut down the video and they moved to YouTube. [Cite.](http://mmoanthropology.tumblr.com/post/14468677539/serenity-now-attack-on-virtual-world-of-warcraft-funeral) There is a link in article to a video interview with the guild master. So, to sum things up: [ul] [li]The video was put up by the attacking guild, not the funeral folks.[/li][li]The purpose of the **raid** , not the funeral, was for 15 minutes of internet fame.[/li][/ul] Would you care to revise your statement about who in this case was “gross, manipulative, and highly disrespectful?” ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/107 "2016-06-02T18:28:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > So, to sum things up: > > [ul] > [li]The video was put up by the attacking guild, not the funeral folks.[/li][li]The purpose of the **raid** , not the funeral, was for 15 minutes of internet fame.[/li][/ul] The funeral folks publicised that they were holding a funeral in a PVP area, and got attacked, then went all ‘woe is me’ about how victimized they were. They were seeking their 15 minutes of fame, the fact that someone (as expected) obliged them and tried for their own fame doesn’t magically make their decision to to hold a funeral in a part of a game made for players to fight go away. > [@](#): > > Would you care to revise your statement about who in this case was “gross, manipulative, and highly disrespectful?” Nope. I can’t stop you from falling for their rather obvious ploy, but it’s perfectly clear to me that holding a memorial service inside of a game with PVP in a PVP area instead of a safe area and announcing it to hostile players is the exact opposite of what you do if you want to have a quiet service without being attacked by other players. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/108 "2016-06-03T15:11:42Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > The funeral folks publicised that they were holding a funeral in a PVP area, and got attacked, then went all ‘woe is me’ about how victimized they were. Why, do you think it would have worked BETTER if they DIDN’T publicize it and everyone went all “WTF are these guys doing, why aren’t they wearing armor?” > [@](#): > > They were seeking their 15 minutes of fame, the fact that someone (as expected) obliged them and tried for their own fame doesn’t magically make their decision to to hold a funeral in a part of a game made for players to fight go away. I expect there might POSSIBLY have been other reasons for holding it there. Why do people NORMALLY choose a given location for a memorial service? Maybe it had something to do with, I dunno, the deceased? Anyway, it’s clear that you’ve decided that this is some sort of baffling and stupid conspiracy, where people would TOTALLY disrespect the memory of their friend/acquaintance/guildmate whatever so that they could whine the Internet about how jerky people are. FFS, LISTEN TO YOURSELF. Maybe they weren’t the sharpest tacks in the box, but what kind of laughable buffoon do you need to be to actually do the thing you are trying to blame them for instead of, y’know, the thing they said they were doing, which might not be super smart, but is miles ahead of the idiocy you are proposing actually motivated them. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/109 "2016-06-03T15:56:17Z")
I am baffled by the amount of anger being used to debate something so trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/110 "2016-06-03T16:51:49Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Why, do you think it would have worked BETTER if they DIDN’T publicize it and everyone went all “WTF are these guys doing, why aren’t they wearing armor?” As I already said, it would have worked fine if they held it either in a non-PVP area on their server, or on a server that doesn’t allow PVP. They chose the rule set and location that lets anyone attack them at any time, in spite of many other options. Publicizing it just made sure that the people they were flagged for PVP with knew where to find them, though not announcing it is no guarantee for success. > [@](#): > > Anyway, it’s clear that you’ve decided that this is some sort of baffling and stupid conspiracy, where people would TOTALLY disrespect the memory of their friend/acquaintance/guildmate whatever so that they could whine the Internet about how jerky people are. FFS, LISTEN TO YOURSELF. It’s not really a ‘conspiracy’, it’s just people (successfully, I might add) seeking a bit of internet fame and sympathy from suckers by painting themselves as victims. It’s the kind of thing that happens all the time, and is much like people who come up with elaborate personas that then ‘break down’ or ‘freak out’ on reality TV shows. If you don’t believe that this behavior exists, I really can’t help you. And it still doesn’t justify calling people who chose to play a video game by the explicit rules agreed to by everyone on that server bad people for playing the game as designed. You don’t get to write your own rules, then condemn people for not following them. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/111 "2016-06-03T17:03:35Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > It’s not really a ‘conspiracy’, it’s just people (successfully, I might add) seeking a bit of internet fame and sympathy from suckers by painting themselves as victims. It’s the kind of thing that happens all the time, and is much like people who come up with elaborate personas that then ‘break down’ or ‘freak out’ on reality TV shows. If you don’t believe that this behavior exists, I really can’t help you. > > And it still doesn’t justify calling people who chose to play a video game by the explicit rules agreed to by everyone on that server bad people for playing the game as designed. You don’t get to write your own rules, then condemn people for not following them. See, if you’d stuck to the LATTER point, I’d be inclined to agree with you - I have no trouble at all agreeing that people do dumb things. It’s when you start arguing that they deliberately pissed on the memory of their friend for 5 minutes of “internet fame” that I think you’re being an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/112 "2016-06-03T17:21:16Z")
He gets points for consistency, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/113 "2016-06-03T17:23:23Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > See, if you’d stuck to the LATTER point, I’d be inclined to agree with you - I have no trouble at all agreeing that people do dumb things. It’s when you start arguing that they deliberately pissed on the memory of their friend for 5 minutes of “internet fame” that I think you’re being an ass. That’s fine, I think you’re being an ass for believing that their obvious setup was a genuine ‘memorial service’ in spite of how trivial it would be to have an uninterrupted one and insulting me for pointing out the basic facts that people want to gloss over. Again, we’re talking about people that set up their ‘memorial service’ on a PVP server in a PVP area, then made a point to tell the opposing side exactly where and when it would be, even though there are non-PVP servers and non-PVP areas they could have used. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/114 "2016-06-03T18:09:23Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > That’s fine, I think you’re being an ass for believing that their obvious setup was a genuine ‘memorial service’ in spite of how trivial it would be to have an uninterrupted one and insulting me for pointing out the basic facts that people want to gloss over. Again, we’re talking about people that set up their ‘memorial service’ on a PVP server in a PVP area, then made a point to tell the opposing side exactly where and when it would be, even though there are non-PVP servers and non-PVP areas they could have used. And you still haven’t considered if there might have been some reason for that. Why do people USUALLY hold memorials in a given location? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459/115 "2016-06-05T05:02:50Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > And you still haven’t considered if there might have been some reason for that. I have stated repeatedly what I think the reason is. Pretending that I haven’t even considered it when I’ve repeated myself on the topic is just silly. > [@](#): > > Why do people USUALLY hold memorials in a given location? I’m not aware that people USUALLY hold ‘memorials’ inside of a PVP game on a PVP server while alerting the hostile side of the PVP game to the location of the ‘memorial’, as far as I know this is a unique event. Usually if people hold memorials at a location, they work with the location owner to reserve the space, which these people didn’t do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-rpgs/755459.md?page=5)