# The Problem With The Left-Wing (polically) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514 "2016-04-08T02:48:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/21 "2016-04-08T06:41:03Z")
Interesting that you have absolutely no criticism of Leftist economics. And the purpose of Pride parades isn’t to change hearts and minds . . . we have the rest of the year for that. The purpose is simply to celebrate who and what we are. For our own benefit. And if you don’t like it, stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/22 "2016-04-08T14:46:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So what do you want, a cookie? How about a few less paragraphs? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/23 "2016-04-08T15:00:04Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Speak for yourself. This. I don’t recognize the people on the left described by the OP. I live in the Pacific Norhtwest, we have lots of lefties. We don’t have these kinds of problems. > [@](#): > > The problem is that we get so caught up in labels and holier than thou that we miss the forest while intensely studying a tree. This can happen, but is something most of us grew out of in our 20s and 30s. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/24 "2016-04-08T15:16:45Z")
Hey OP, you know what three lefts make? Quit trying so hard to be misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/25 "2016-04-08T15:59:14Z")
What a pointless and sweeping generalization (the OP). Some liberals are assholes and have reacted improperly. If/when you see this occur, address it and challenge it. But not most liberals, and not most liberal reactions. It’s not “vitriol” when a gay person says he doesn’t give a shit about your opinion of gay pride parades, any more than it’d be vitriol if a rapper says he doesn’t give a shit if you don’t like rap, or if a soccer player said he didn’t give a shit if you didn’t like soccer. That’s just people speaking their mind, bluntly, to you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/26 "2016-04-08T16:00:14Z")
Three things, **Zeke** : 1. At no point in this thread have I called you a homophobe, you pea-brained dipshit. 2. The fact that you agree with my politics doesn’t mean I have to like you. You marking down all the “right” answers on the ballot doesn’t make you any less of an asshole. 3. If you didn’t want your OP to be met with hostility, maybe you shouldn’t have opened it up by calling people cunts. And no, I don’t care that you include yourself in the group you’re insulting. Call yourself a self-righteous cunt if that’s what floats your boat. Don’t drag me into it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/27 "2016-04-08T16:04:02Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > The Problem With The Left-Wing (politically) > > We are bunch of self-righteous cunts. > > We don’t discuss things with our opponents we browbeat them. > > We call them simple and convenient names like racist or homophobe and dismiss them as such. The left that matters does not focus on racial or identity politics but on economic issues like wealth inequality. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/28 "2016-04-08T16:08:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The left that matters does not focus on racial or identity politics but on economic issues like wealth inequality. So Hillary Clinton doesn’t matter. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/29 "2016-04-08T16:17:51Z")
Maybe, but she doesn’t mind. Mind over matter. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/30 "2016-04-08T16:26:42Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > The Problem With The Left-Wing (politically) Everything you say has a right-wing example ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/31 "2016-04-08T16:32:59Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Everything you say has a right-wing example So every left-winger action has an equal and opposite reactionary? ---
**Author:** ![Memnon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@Memnon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Memnon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/32 "2016-04-08T16:39:11Z")
> [@Zeke N Destroy](#): > > The Problem With The Left-Wing (politically) > > We are bunch of self-righteous cunts. That’s certainly true of some sections of the Left. The Regressive Left, with their trigger-warnings and their safe-spaces, their oppression olympics and their micro-aggressions, their identity politics and their obsession with privilege, really are the most tiresome self-righteous cunts imaginable. They’re some of the most cosseted people on Earth, yet they exist in a state of perpetual high-dudgeon. They give the entire Left a bad name. They’re just awful. The rest of us are okay. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/33 "2016-04-08T16:52:33Z")
Cool story bro. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/34 "2016-04-08T16:57:01Z")
I’m not left-wing (or right-wing), but I think I can give you some perspective on this nonetheless. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > Not in the least. > > I got thumped because a friend of my is gay. Such is life. > > I believe my kids should grow up thinking that you should judge people on their personality rather than their colour or orientation and the best way to do that is to expose them to different cultures. That, to me, is responsible parenting. > > I figure that if you are going to dislike someone do it based on them and their actions rather than their colour or orientation. Exposure to different ideas, cultures, beliefs, etc. is all well and good, but there’s a difference between seeing different cultures and just thinking of them as different and associating with them for the sake of diversity, and just seeing them as variations and associating with them as human beings. The problem here is that he is your “gay friend” not just your friend. It’s akin to someone saying “I’m not racist, I have many black friends”. By all means, have friends that are gay or black or whatever, but you need to see them through the lens of their humanity, and as your friends first. And giving you the benefit of the the doubt on that, if someone hates on you for associating with someone that’s gay… who cares? There are plenty of hypocrites out there, and as such, I think it damages their credibility on those issues. For instance, I used to know someone who was very liberal and all pro-gay rights but then freaked out when she was concerned her new roommate might be gay and didn’t want him having gay sex in the house. I eventually got her to realize the hypocrisy of that position and she relaxed. The point is, some people have contradictory beliefs and they don’t even realize it until they actually come to face it. I think for some people, they love to believe in equal rights IN THEORY, but actually facing that in real life creates a state of cognitive dissonance. I’m not sure where you are in that; hell, other than situations where I’ve directly face my beliefs am I aware how strongly I apply it. Sometimes I’ve been on point, other times I realized I still needed more work. > [@](#): > > I pointed out the vitriol in **Miller** ’s post as speaking to the hostility that allies face when they deviate from the accepted line. Regardless of what makes someone an ally, it doesn’t mean we have to like them. I know plenty of people with similar political beliefs that I find to be detestable. Similarly, I know people that I strongly disagree with on many points, and we’re very close friends. The reason he responded to you the way you did is because you said something pretty darn offensive to him, and I think that reason is pretty apparent in the context of the above. > [@](#): > > What is racist about saying that we have degraded a specific group of people and they have abreacted to it? > > If anything I am placing the blame on my fellow white people for inflicting these things on natives. Look to any place on Earth and you will see that the oppressed people have a higher degree of criminality, poverty, addiction etc. > > It is not racial, it is not cultural it is circumstantial. > > But that doesn’t change the facts resultant from that. The point is, it’s not the race, as a group, that has responded to it, and yet you specifically say “they” in your response, referring to the group as a whole. Yes, people of that race may have responded negatively to it, and perhaps statistically at a higher ratio than other races, but you can’t paint a race based on statistics like that. This is exactly why it’s not racist to point out, that there is a higher rate of crime among blacks than whites, but to argue that that makes blacks criminals, or that a given black person is more likely to be a criminal because he’s black is when it becomes racist. That implies that somehow it is the color of someone’s skin that is causing them to behave in a certain way, rather than any number of other factors, many of which have a much stronger correlation, that are involved. Similarly, it’s racist against white people. Even if most or all of the bad things that have happened were white, it doesn’t somehow make someone who is white responsible for the actions of another white guy who actually did oppress them. How in the hell am I responsible for any actions taken by some guy I’ve never met in a place I’ve never been just because we have similar skin colors? > [@](#): > > In fact I made a point of saying that a)natives (here) tend toward more violent crime AND b) this is a result of their circumstances (that I acknowledged were caused by white folk) have left them with fewer options and opportunities. > > The criminality is circumstantial not racial. > > I say now and forever, “No matter the colour, gender, orientation or identity people who are consistently shit on will behave in accordance with their circumstances.” > > If you can’t earn an honest living you will earn a dishonest living, If you are treated as lesser you will behave as lesser. I couldn’t disagree more. Plenty of people are shit on constantly and they have the fortitude to rise above it. We should have some reasonable measure of understanding based upon the circumstances for an individual, whether those circumstances are due to race, gender, orientation, poverty, whatever. But overwhelmingly, people of various classes are just that… people. I think having an expectation that people who are consistently shit on will live down to it rather than up is missing the point. The point isn’t to sit around and make excuses, the point is to have make an effort to understand their circumstances and find the best way to help them. > [@](#): > > The responses I’ve gotten thus far pretty much affirm my thesis. > > We, who believe in social justice, cut our own throats by trying to be more progressive-than thou. Frankly, the only person that really seems to have a holier-than-thou attitude in this thread, is you. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/35 "2016-04-08T17:01:56Z")
Hyper-sensitivity to micro-aggressions, political correctness - these are been flies in the left-wing ointment for a while. They bug me, too. It helps to keep them in perspective. How do these mistakes compare with those of our ideological opponents? Motes to their beams. It also helps, when someone seems to be overreacting to some minor linguistic slight, to take the other person’s point of view. For example: Why would someone take such great offense at my offhand comment that their flaming gay behavior is outrageous and counterproductive? Why would they lash out at me, a 99% ally, for something so trivial? I deliberately won’t try to answer that - the whole point is to think about why this person is being so overly sensitive, so defensive, so wrong. And then examine your (our) own defensiveness critically, too. Be the change you want to see; if you want a bunch of changes, focus on the main ones. Making people a little less hyper-sensitive is - for me - a much lower priority than getting bigots to stop bigotting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/36 "2016-04-08T17:51:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The left that matters does not focus on racial or identity politics but on economic issues like wealth inequality. I would dispute that. There are plenty of important current issues like same-sex marriages and racial profiling that are not part of wealth inequality. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/37 "2016-04-08T17:57:38Z")
> [@snoe](#): > > Hyper-sensitivity to micro-aggressions, political correctness - these are been flies in the left-wing ointment for a while. They bug me, too. > > It helps to keep them in perspective. How do these mistakes compare with those of our ideological opponents? Motes to their beams. You also have to remember that a lot of what you hear being said about topics like micro-aggressions and political correctness are exaggerated complaints from the other side. The ratio of conservatives attacking how outrageous the idea of micro-aggressions is to liberals actually supporting the idea is probably is around 100 to 1. It’s a trivial ripple that the right wing is trying to make a tsunami out of. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/38 "2016-04-08T18:04:47Z")
> [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > But I never did that. I quoted you. > [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](#): > > The responses I’ve gotten thus far pretty much affirm my thesis. So you regard a bunch of people telling you you’re wrong as evidence that you’re right? Have you ever had a thesis that didn’t get affirmed? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/39 "2016-04-08T18:05:04Z")
This is the GREATEST THREAD EVER. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514/40 "2016-04-08T18:36:38Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So Hillary Clinton doesn’t matter. Gotcha. What gave you the idea that Hillary is to the left? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-problem-with-the-left-wing-polically/751514.md?page=3)