# The Prodigal Son **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931 "2002-11-15T21:42:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/1 "2002-11-15T21:42:55Z")
I’m generally not one for witnessing, but I read this and it really touched me, and I figured I’d share it here. [The Parable of the Prodigal Son](http://www.explorefaith.org/LentenHomily03.05.99.html) Here’s an excerpt > [@](#): > > Gregory has zeroed in on something very important here. Where we stand has everything to do with how we hear the parable of the prodigal son. Those of us who have done unforgivable things in our lives—who have broken solemn vows, betrayed sacred trusts, who have hurt the people we love so badly that we have knocked the wind right out of them—we know what it is like to watch those people struggle for breath, while we wait for the words we so richly deserve: “Damn you to hell forever.” When those words do not come, however, when the people who have suffered because of us rise up on one elbow and say, “I’m forgiving you for that”—well, that is when true repentance usually begins—not before the pardon but after it—which is why we will defend this story to the death. > > The people who find it offensive tend to be those who, through heroic discipline or complete lack of imagination, have never broken any of the ten commandments. They have never left home. They have never squandered their inheritance. They have never abandoned their responsibilities, and not all of them are insufferable about it, either. Some of them sound genuinely sad about what they have missed. They wish they could do what other people do—just go for the gusto and deal with the wreckage later–sin boldly that grace may abound—only they cannot seem to do that. Faith has to count for something, they explain. It has to be more than talk. If Jesus did not mean for people to live more virtuous lives, then why did he keep calling them to follow him? Someone has to give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/2 "2002-11-15T21:50:20Z")
There was a major hijack of a thread once in which I was floored to learn that there were people who defended the at-home brother’s sulking and envy. I didn’t get it then, and I still don’t completely. But your quote does help me understand just a bit better. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/3 "2002-11-15T23:24:35Z")
Very interesting link. I really enjoyed reading it. However, this parable pretty much sums up my confusion about Christianity. In my mind, it’s something of a contradiction to both emphasize how easily all your past sins can be washed away and to try to keep people from sinning in the future. Sin should either have a consequence or it shouldn’t. Either god is infinitely patient and understanding, and hence will always understand why you did whatever bad thing you did better than you could yourself, or he punishes people for breaking the rules. A mixture of both seems really arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/4 "2002-11-16T00:54:19Z")
The writing expresses the true nature of God. God is beyond good and evil, He is unconditional love. Near death experiencers feel His love and acceptance whatever they have done or not done with their lives. We are here to learn, and we will make many mistakes (sin) in the process. This story dovetails with the story of Jesus’ forgiveness of the prostitude. The key sentence being “let ye who are without sin cast the first stone.” They were none. Most of the problems come from what is passing today for “Christianity”. Jesus would not recognize it. People don’t yet understand that “sin” is its own punishment. It always brings pain and suffering to those who engage in it. God’s Love is greater than any mistake any of us will ever make. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/5 "2002-11-16T16:06:47Z")
Well it won’t feel like a big deal to be found, if you’ve never been lost. I can understand both sons’ viewpoints, as I’ve been both of them at different times, and while the good son has a valid complaint (that he never sinned against his father, but never had a fatted calf killed), he should have been glad that his brother repented and came back. Unfortunately, many parents are not like the father in the story (who is obviously symbolic of God). The preceding two passages in Luke are about a shepherd who lost one sheep, then left his 99 other sheep to go search for the lost one, and a woman who had 10 pieces of silver and lost one, then searched diligently for the one that was lost. The point is that God rejoices when one comes to repentence, no matter how bad he was before. And it doesn’t mean that the sheep that didn’t get lost or the coins still in your pocket are not important, only that you rejoice when the lost one is returned. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/6 "2002-11-16T16:42:01Z")
OK, the end times may be at hand at that. First I disagree with **Polycarp** , then **Joe\_Cool** and I agree twice in the same day! I think the point of the Prodigal Son is God meets where we are, wherever that happens to be. When I first moved back home after living on the opposite side of the country for several years, I’d get frustrated when my brother would come down from Massachusetts for Thanksgiving and my parents would make a big fuss over him, while I basically was treated like a servant. I knew exactly how the older brother felt! Different parables were intended to serve different purposes. It’s easier for those of us who have never left home, or haven’t done so in years to believe we are loved by God. After all, why wouldn’t He love us? We’ve done what he wants us to do, at least as far as we’re concerned. Christ, however, spent a lot of time ministering to those who were outside of mainstream religion, and who were frequently shunned by it. Handicapped people were assumed to have been cursed by God; tax collectors, since they deprived their income from the taxes they collected were assumed to be out for every penny they could get by any means they could get it, including cheating. They made the IRS or the Inland Revenue look popular! I see the Parable of the Prodigal Son as saying it doesn’t matter how far astray you’ve gone, you are still welcome and loved. It is a very difficult balance for us humans, and one that gets wrestled with around here. On the one hand, you’ve got people who are working hard within their religion day by day, who’d like to be recognized and rewarded for it, and who are acutely aware that sin is to be acknowledged and the consequences of it accepted. On the other hand, there are people who are just finding Christianity who may have led incredibly sinful lives up to that point, say someone on death row for multiple murders. My limited understanding tells me both are loved by Christ, and there’s no way to tell who’s salvation has more merit. I don’t have to like it, and I suspect it may be sinful for me to try to compare (wasn’t there something about James and John wanting to sit at Christ’s right and left hands?). Still, there’s something in me which still says [whiny voice]“But, Go-od!”[/whiny voice] Oh well. Come to think of it, I’ve also been pretty lost myself, and I do remember being made to feel welcome, so I’ll quit whining. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/7 "2002-11-16T19:02:48Z")
My ego says: “I am more worthy than my brother.” Be still, my ego, and give thanks for your existence. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/8 "2002-11-16T21:33:31Z")
I’ve always hated this story…Yeah, it’s great that the younger brother is welcomed into the family and all, but why not reward both brothers? Methinks God needs to take a few parental classes… It’s a lot like when a new sibling is born. The older one probably feels angry and jealous at first, but the parent has to reassure the first child that they’re still loved. I don’t think I’d hate the prodigal son as much if both sons were given equal attention. I mean, now I get some of your points, but I still wouldn’t consider this fair or just. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/9 "2002-11-16T22:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*My ego says: “I am more worthy than my brother.” > > Be still, my ego, and give thanks for your existence.\*\* **lekatt** ’s use of the term [**ego**](http://www.mysticmissal.org/monthlymissal.htm) sent me off to Google. > [@](#): > > The ego or personality has to be well-formed before the essence can begin to emerge, and the ego dissolved. The idle daydreamer must become the hero, the man of concrete action, and learn to face life, responsibility, and self-sacrifice before he can lose his hard won ego in the Universal… > Dreaming oneself into a heaven only puts off the eventual rude awakening. Most of us must take the road through life and suffering before finding the Kingdom Within. The journey of the Hero is one way of describing this road. We will need the hero’s courage, strength, and self-discipline to fight our way through to the possibility of inner-death, and liberation. Could it be that the younger son represents the hero, who has made a journey, suffered and discovered a truth? He returns from the journey to tell others of his discovery and is rewarded by the Father upon his return. What he learns is that it isn’t the material world that will reward him, but his Father’s love. He surrenders his ego and is willing to return as a servant. On the other hand the older brother never makes a journey and never learns the lesson, therefore he is the one that is lost. Remember, the Father has outposts looking for the return of the younger son because he knows that the hero always returns. On the other hand, the older son complains that the Father never let him have his buddies over to drink a little wine. Daydreamers have parties and heros go on journeys. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/10 "2002-11-16T23:54:03Z")
Interesting reading Kniz, never read material from The Mystic Missal before. If you don’t risk, you don’t learn. I liked the quote: “True religion is the realization of truth.” -Franz Hartmann- ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/11 "2002-11-17T00:53:46Z")
I’ve read one interpretation (from The Prostitute in the Family Tree by Douglas Adams) that no one comes out of the parable looking all that good. The younger son isn’t really repentant as much as he is hungry. When he comes back, he dumps the end of his practiced speech to “treat me like one of your servants,” and just goes ahead and takes stuff, he never expresses any word of gratitude, and later that night, he isn’t with his father (which is where someone might expect a really repentant, grateful son to be), he’s too busy eating, drinking, and dancing. The father had already divided the property and given it all away - he had nothing left. The robe, the ring, the calf actually belonged to the elder brother, the father just kind of appropriated it and handed it off to the prodigal. The father also didn’t even really bother to invite the older son to the celebration in the first place. (The elder only found out when he heard the music in the distance). Also, the oldest wasn’t being just good, he was being show-offy. It was his property, they were his livestock, his stuff. If he’d wanted to celebrate ever before, he could have done it, but he chose not to do that, and instead to look like “the good son” in comparison to his brother (he even twists the truth about his brother to make himself look better.) I’m not sure I agree with that, but it is worth throwing out. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/12 "2002-11-17T06:41:08Z")
I’ve played the part of the Prodigal Son and didn’t get the warm welcome that lots of people describe. As described in other threads, I’ve tried the “born again” experience, welcomeing Jesus into my heart, etc. It didn’t work for me. I’m sure the Fundamentalist here would say that I rejected God, and they’re right, I have. But I would qualify that statement, I rejected the **Judeo-Christian-Islamic** God. The point I’m emphasizing here is that there are other gods and other ways, as my own personal experience and the experience of thousands (if not millions) of others who practice non-Abrahamic religions know. If Christianity works for you, that’s great but for many people it doesn’t. If the Prodigal Son doesn’t come home, it’s not because he’s lost or dead, it might be because he found something better. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/13 "2002-11-17T07:28:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > **I’ve played the part of the Prodigal Son and didn’t get the warm welcome that lots of people describe.** You told God that you had been wrong and were willing to be his servant? How did you know He wasn’t over-joyed? > [@](#): > > **But I would qualify that statement, I rejected the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God.** Doesn’t the Norse mythology have a similar story of someone that went into the wilderness and was welcomed upon return? > [@](#): > > **The point I’m emphasizing here is that there are other gods and other ways, as my own personal experience and the experience of thousands (if not millions) of others who practice non-Abrahamic religions know.** There are common threads that run through all myths or religions. > [@](#): > > **If Christianity works for you, that’s great but for many people it doesn’t.** True. > [@](#): > > \*\*If the Prodigal Son doesn’t come home, it’s not because he’s lost or dead, it might be because he found something better. \*\* But then he wouldn’t have been on a hero’s journey and there would be nothing mythological about his experience. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/14 "2002-11-17T11:20:35Z")
Zoggie wrote: > [@](#): > > I’ve always hated this story…Yeah, it’s great that the younger brother is welcomed into the family and all, but why not reward both brothers? Methinks God needs to take a few parental classes… As the father in the story told the older brother, he has always had access to anything he wished from his Father’s kingdom, including robes and fatted calves. In my opinion, whoever would not welcome home his lost son with unreserved celebration is the one who needs the parenting classes. If you hate this story, I bet the one about the workers who started at the end of the day being paid the same as those who’ve worked since sunrise _really_ wads up your panties. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/15 "2002-11-17T20:02:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*In my opinion, whoever would not welcome home his lost son with unreserved celebration is the one who needs the parenting classes. > > If you hate this story, I bet the one about the workers who started at the end of the day being paid the same as those who’ve worked since sunrise _really_ wads up your panties. \*\* Boy, you said it. I actually mean tto reference that story in my post, but I forgot. Thanks for bringing it up. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/16 "2002-11-17T22:52:03Z")
IMHO, Jesus told the story of the Prodigal Son to illustrate God’s unconditional love for His children. If you don’t like the story, thinking some punishment should have been given instead, you just don’t understand God. When mankind moves closer to God, it will be understood. The story of the Prostitude, and the workers, etc., all illustrate this truth. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/17 "2002-11-18T07:32:13Z")
\*\*kniz wrote: You told God that you had been wrong and were willing to be his servant? How did you know He wasn’t over-joyed?\*\* Not in that exact way. After my original baptism in the early 60s and then making a concerted effort to become a practicing Christian again in 1980, I felt like the long lost son. The initial joy was lost when I started asking for specific answers to the issue of homosexuality. It went downhill from there very quickly. **Doesn’t the Norse mythology have a similar story of someone that went into the wilderness and was welcomed upon return?** Not that I can think of, right off hand. I don’t have ready access to any books that can give an answer. None of the mythological stories fit, some of the legends, might, in a general way. While there are stories of a traveling hero, none seem to fit closely with the Prodigal Son theme; traveling away from home and return then being forgiven. **There are common threads that run through all myths or religions.** The point of the Prodigal Son parable is that in Christianity, all sins are forgiven and you will be loved upon return. My personal experience contradicts this. Therefore, I looked to other religions. That’s the point I’m trying to make here. **But then he wouldn’t have been on a hero’s journey and there would be nothing mythological about his experience.** That’s one interpretation of the story. I think the idea of forgiveness of sins is a better interpretation. Do any Christian scholars agree with your version? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/18 "2002-11-18T12:03:29Z")
Nope. I still don’t get it. The point of this story (and the one about the workers that was also referenced) seems to be the common Christian theme that nothing that we actually do can possibly make us worthy of God’s love. The son who stands beside the father loyally through the years and works hard for him all this time is treated worse than the son who took his inheritance and ran away to squander it on wine, women and song then crawled back home to beg Daddy to support him again (with things that weren’t even Daddy’s to give away anymore). The same way with the workers. Those who worked for half an hour are paid the same amount as those who’ve worked all day. I know this is an illustration of the equal worthlessness of all humans compared to God, but it’s also a very real reason that Christianity’s basic assumptions about the universe make my skin crawl. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/19 "2002-11-18T12:12:00Z")
Jayjay wrote: > [@](#): > > The son who stands beside the father loyally through the years and works hard for him all this time is treated worse than the son who took his inheritance and ran away to squander it on wine, women and song then crawled back home to beg Daddy to support him again (with things that weren’t even Daddy’s to give away anymore). 😃 How is having at your disposal every luxury of the kingdom being treated worse than eating slop with the pigs? > [@](#): > > The same way with the workers. Those who worked for half an hour are paid the same amount as those who’ve worked all day. I know this is an illustration of the equal worthlessness of all humans compared to God, but it’s also a very real reason that Christianity’s basic assumptions about the universe make my skin crawl. Should God love one more (or less) than another? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2002, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/20 "2002-11-18T12:31:01Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure I agree with that, but it is worth throwing out. What, doyuouget, when you have DOuglas Adams stick his own arbitrary information on the end of God’s parable? > [@](#): > > The same way with the workers. Those who worked for half an hour are paid the same amount as those who’ve worked all day. Look, this is the way I’m going to explain it to you. God loves you. He also loves me. And when either one of us screws up, as we do quite often, God is willing to forgive. There are no Kings but the Lord in heaven, and His burden is light, and His yoke is easy. This parable is about forgiveness, not rewards. Yup, we _are_ worthless when compared to the Lord. We are vain, selfish, unholy little bastards. We can also be proud noble Son’s and Daughter’s of God. But n matter how far we come from the former, we always fall somewhere dhort of the latter. In this vast cosmos, yes, we are very small and pitiable creatures, but God made us, each and every one. And he gave us His death and Ressurection. I cannot understand how you look at his gift of equal glory, happiness, and love and say its unfair? Of course its unfair! He is being extrodinarily kind. Tell me, do you offer love and kindness to the germs inside your mouth and intestines? Compared to Him, we are even smaller. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931.md?page=2)