# The Prodigal Son **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931 "2002-11-15T21:42:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/41 "2002-11-19T03:19:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*Cult of Ecstasy? \*\* The COE is based on the concept that breaking taboos, finding new ways to stimulate the senses, and experiencing intense pleasure break down mental barriers. The consciousness-epxansion-through-recreational-drugs movement of the 1960’s was largely their work. Re- Meaning If the real meaning here is grace and forgiveness, they should have left this parable out. I find “Seek and ye shall find. Ask, and it shall be granted” etc much clearer. Libertarian- So the prodigal gets love and forgiveness, but not any more of dad’s stuff? I’d always assume that things got split into shares again, effectively punishing the good son. An Alternate Interpretation- From Dr. Adder By K W Jeter “That’s right, _son_,” Endpoint grated. “I’m afraid we observe a reading of the parable of of the prodigal son that may differ a little from your conception of the story, _son_.” The way he rasped out the word bristled Limmit’s neck hair. “But then,” Endpoint continued, “you don’t really know what it’s like to be a father, eh? And to raise a _son_ like you? Maybe, if you think about it in the time left to you, you’ll begin to see why we hold that the prodigal son _is_ the fatted calf. It makes more sense that way, of course. After all, how would you really welcome home such a _son_? The flesh of his father’s loins, yet who has feasted on his broken heart. Now it’ll be tit for tat, so to speak.” ---
**Author:** ![drpepper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@drpepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drpepper)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/42 "2002-11-19T03:27:36Z")
Great posts about the Prodigal Son, I have really been enjoying this thread. But I have to address: > [@](#): > > ## _originally posted by_ **DocCathode** quote: > > ## Originally posted by lekatt Near death experiencers see a God of compassion and love, which makes it hard for them to go to church. Most quit their churches and go to spiritual churches or not at all. Some start their own centers of love and healing. > > Lekatt’s “proof” is rather thoroughly trounced In This Thread. I think you’re unnecessarily jumping **lekatt** here. Somehow I don’t doubt that his assertions about the typical NDE-ers are necessarily wrong or out of line here. I don’t even think there’s really much to debate in the above passage; the assertions themselves are really pretty benign. I read the other thread, where you so gleefully pointed out that his proof was trounced. While of course he can’t prove to you that his NDE really happened, I don’t think that really has much to do with the comments he is making here about the topic of the Prodigal Son. > [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## _Originally posted by_ **lekatt** : In the spirit world sex doesn’t exist. No body, no sex. Not hard to understand. Most people can’t see further than the rules of religion, certainly not into their spiritual existence. > > Wrong again. Members of the Cult Of Ecstasy have demonstrated countless times that sex is very much a part of the tertiary and secondary layers. Did you really just tell **lekatt** he was “wrong” and then back up this statement with some equally non-scientific nonsense about the cult of ecstasy? I can’t rightly tell if you’re trying to be seriously contradictory here or not (and if you’re not, please accept my apologies), but what the hell is this? Have I been whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/43 "2002-11-19T03:44:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by drpepper \* > **I think you’re unnecessarily jumping lekatt here. While of course he can’t prove to you that his NDE really happened, I don’t think that really has much to do with the comments he is making here about the topic of the Prodigal Son.** The Smiling Bandit asked Lekatt for a cite. I linked to his debut thread. \*\* > [@](#): > > Did you really just tell **lekatt** he was “wrong” and then back up this statement with some equally non-scientific nonsense about the cult of ecstasy?\*\* I do not wish to further hijack this thread. If you read through the thread I linked to, you’ll see a listing of my credentials. My information on the COE is documented fact. Your labelling it as “non-scientific nonsense” is deeply insulting. However, in the spirit of this thread, I forgive you. If you wish to discuss these things further, another thread would be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/44 "2002-11-19T04:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*The Smiling Bandit asked Lekatt for a cite. I linked to his debut thread. > \*\* > I do not wish to further hijack this thread. If you read through the thread I linked to, you’ll see a listing of my credentials. My information on the COE is documented fact. Your labelling it as “non-scientific nonsense” is deeply insulting. However, in the spirit of this thread, I forgive you. > If you wish to discuss these things further, another thread would be appropriate. \*\* Hi Doc How are you doing with those ether machine these days. I think the COE is just another creation of your wide imagination. Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/45 "2002-11-19T04:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JerseyDiamond \* > \*\ ***lekatt** , this is probably the one and only time I will respond to anything you post, because I find you to be so far off and misled. As a matter of fact, I find the atheist to be more christian like than you. > The only thing I wanted to say is that we are all equally **unworthy** of God’s love. You act as if we are entitled. Maybe I was wrong and you meant that we are not worthy. If so, I apologize. > > **His4ever** , don’t be swayed. You are a very strong christian. Don’t let people like the above sway you beliefs. Those books of ‘enlightenment’ are hogwash. Before you read anything like that, make sure that you have a great hold on the bible. > > JD \*\* What I posted I got from the Bible. I meant we are worthy of God’s Love. It is man that condemns himself. I agree the Bible is full of contradictions, there is no way to explain it, it is true. You can start with the lineage of Jesus, not that it matters much. And go from there. Jesus says to not judge others, seems like a lot of that is being done here. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/46 "2002-11-19T06:09:27Z")
\*\*Lekatt wrote: Near death experiencers see a God of compassion and love, which makes it hard for them to go to church.\*\* My experience with (the J/C/I) God wasn’t thru a NDE, but was certianly real. It also confirmed that what was required of me was obedience. Love had nothing to do with it. Sorry, but no thanks. That’s not a god I’m interested in following. **In the spirit world sex doesn’t exist. No body, no sex. Not hard to understand. Most people can’t see further than the rules of religion, certainly not into their spiritual existence.** Hrm… I would disagree. Many Neopagans would argue that sex is the driving force of the universe, a literal procreative act. The synthesis between two opposing principles into a something entirely new. **Suggest you don’t give up, there are congregations that don’t condemn.** Too late. I’m happily Neopagan for the past 17 years. Over the past few years, I’ve been exposed to new concepts and ideas that ensure I’ll never go back to Christianity. \*\*Polycarp wrote: Freyr, if Jesus was to tell the parable in your presence, I feel sure He’d add in one small detail – the need on the part of the Prodigal to find it in himself to forgive his brother for his lack of love. Polycarp\*\* with you, I’ve never felt a lack of love. It’s some of the other sons and daughters I have a real problem with. That’s their problem, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/47 "2002-11-19T07:05:25Z")
I have no argument with neopagenism or obedience, provided they are constructive. I believe something that requires obedience is good to build self control and understanding. However there is nothing greater than love. Obedience in that direction will pay a person well. It is necessary to work with it in order to understand it. But I really don’t understand how your’re going to do sex without a body. Please let me know, I am curious. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/48 "2002-11-19T11:19:24Z")
DocCathode wrote: > [@](#): > > Libertarian- > So the prodigal gets love and forgiveness, but not any more of dad’s stuff? I’d always assume that things got split into shares again, effectively punishing the good son. So, it’s not enough that you succeed; other men must fail? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/49 "2002-11-19T16:09:58Z")
Imagine how different the parable might have been, if the elder son had been the one who rushed out, filled with joy, and generosity at the return of his brother. There is a different lesson for you. How does the father feel now? Is not his joy multiplied by the joy of his elder son? And the elder son? Now he sits at the head of his fathers table, feasting his long lost brother, and celebrating the reunion of the family, in joy, and without rancor. Who is not better for it? And the difference is not the actions of the father, but the action, and the heart of the elder son. The sinless Christian, were such a thing to be, would come joyously to each sinner, filled with the love of the Lord, and fearless that he might run out, if he lavished it upon the unworthy. Even if I live a perfect life, and have never even wanted to sin, the soul of each sinner is precious no less, because of me. It should be precious to me, as well. For as I love my Father in Heaven, so then do I love each one that He loves. It is not fair. It surpasses petty fairness and human legalistic judgment. It is divine salvation, born out of infinite love. Let go of fairness, it’s a bad deal. Lord, please save me from what I deserve. ## Tris “RITUALISM, n. A Dutch Garden of God where He may walk in rectilinear freedom, keeping off the grass.” ~ Ambrose Bierce ~ ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/50 "2002-11-19T16:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Lord, please save me from what I deserve. > > Tris The interesting thing here to me is (1) how much in agreement virtually everybody here is, and (2) that what **Tris** said in that quote is simply the opposite face of the same coin that **Jersey Diamond** posted above (about “unworthiness.”) ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/51 "2002-11-19T19:00:04Z")
I believe Jesus made it clear through His teachings that God loved His children inspite of their shortcomings and mistakes. The Prodigal Son, Saving the Prostitude, and others are stories of God’s love for us. Jesus also clearly states how His followers should treat others. “Love one another, do not judge, forgive, go the second mile, turn the other cheek, return good for evil, love your enemies, and the big one, Seek ye first the Kingdom of God.” I don’t see how anyone could misread these teachings. If we follow what Jesus said, there would be no reason to fear God, or anything else. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/52 "2002-11-19T19:07:22Z")
Forgot to say that those who feel unworthy of God’s Love need only read what Jesus has to say about it. If we observe His teaching and doings, healing, feeding, visiting and teaching, and we believe Jesus is God, then we know God loves us very much, more than we can imagine. We have our life in Him, He is our benefactor. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/53 "2002-11-19T20:40:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Polycarp_ > FWIW, there were standards on how a family’s inheritance was to be divided at the time of the patriarch’s death – and it amounted to dividing the estate into N+1 equal shares, where N is the number of sons surviving, the oldest son being entitled to two shares and the others to one each. That’s why the prodigal asked for “his inheritance” and got a third of his father’s possessions. The remaining two-thirds were by law the property of the father but would pass to the elder brother on his death. What I find interesting as well is the father’s enabling his younger son to depart. I would assume the father is in no way obligated to dispense a portion of his estate while alive. Ergo we have all been enabled to leave God. Secondly, in the same chapter we find two other parables that imply a God who seek out the lost souls that are unable to return on their own. This is different from the passive father waiting.This suggests to me that there is no particular blueprint that we all must follow to achieve salvation. Thirdly, I find it significant that in all three parables imply a universal salvation for mankind. All 100 sheep, all ten coins, and all the father’s sons. After all, it seems there was no reason for the father to throw a party in this household (as the older son laments) until he had all his sons together again. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/54 "2002-11-19T20:47:08Z")
Beautiful, Grienspace. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/55 "2002-11-19T21:21:04Z")
> [@](#): > > _Lib_ > Beautiful That He is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/56 "2002-11-19T22:00:45Z")
🙂 Yes. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/57 "2002-11-19T22:34:28Z")
I guess I am stuck on the ‘fairness’ aspect of the story. Ask Trisk said, if the elder son has thrown the feast that would have been wonderful. That dad welcomes back his son is wonderful, of course. But the idea that dad’s things get divided again, that the prodigal who wasted his inheritance now gets a share of his brothers, always bothered me. Of course, this aspect of the parable doesn’t exist in life. G-d’s love and mercy are without limit. No matter how much any of us take, there is never one iota less for others. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/58 "2002-11-19T22:36:36Z")
But what does “a share” mean when the supply is infinite? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/59 "2002-11-20T00:40:01Z")
Like to add an Amen to the above writings. Great minds think alike. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/60 "2002-11-20T01:31:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*I’m curious as to whether there are any Christians who do not like the story. \*\* Oh my yes. My reaction to the parable tells me far more than I care to know about myself. And the scary thing is, Jesus loves me anyway. The point of the parable (for me) is that God’s love isn’t fair. No, it isn’t fair that nice, tightly buttoned, upper-middle-class me, who is a responsible husband and father and employee and read my Bible every day and support my church and try (sometimes) to actually live my life as I think God wants me to - it isn’t fair that God loves the drug-addled prostitute who leaves her children alone for hours while she peddles blow jobs for crack _just as much as He loves me_. It isn’t fair. And it never will be. And if I am working for a Kingdom where things are fair, I am wasting my time. But God loves us. And it isn’t fair. Blessed be He who loves us much more than is fair. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931.md?page=4)