# The Prodigal Son **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931 "2002-11-15T21:42:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/61 "2002-11-20T02:17:17Z")
Amen again Shodan God’s love is greater than any mistake any of us can ever make. With this in mind, peace on earth and goodwill to men makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/62 "2002-11-20T14:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*I guess I am stuck on the ‘fairness’ aspect of the story. Ask Trisk said, if the elder son has thrown the feast that would have been wonderful. That dad welcomes back his son is wonderful, of course. But the idea that dad’s things get divided again, that the prodigal who wasted his inheritance now gets a share of his brothers, always bothered me. \*\* Me, as well. I can’t help but think “What if the good son had acted in the same way as the prodigal son?” Where would dad be then? He had given a good portion of his property to the bad son, would he not have given an equal share to the good son? See, I make certain assumptions here. Dad has the family business. The good son works for dad. Dad is now getting on years and is turning much of the work over to the son. I assume even that dad is fairly dependent on the son to run things. Where would dad be without this hardworking son? Does dad appreciate him? > [@](#): > > Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends Doesn’t look like it. I think the good son (for lack of a better term) is correct in assuming that the other son was his father’s favorite. I understand the moral of the story. And I have to assume that the party at the end was tha father celerating his own joy at his son’s return, not a reward for the son. But I think the concept of forgivness is badly illustrated here. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/63 "2002-11-20T14:11:23Z")
Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/64 "2002-11-20T14:42:34Z")
What? I’ve killed another thread? Heck. OK, I’ll butt out. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/65 "2002-11-20T14:48:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*But what does “a share” mean when the supply is infinite? \*\* Right, but in the story, the supply isn’t infinite. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/66 "2002-11-20T14:50:21Z")
maybe its an analogy? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/67 "2002-11-20T15:29:53Z")
Obviously it’s an analogy, but the fact remains, analogy or not, the father treats the bad son better than he does the good son. He doesn’t even invite the good son to the party he’s throwing for the bad son…the good son has to hear about it from a servant. It just seems sort of unjust to me. The problem isn’t that he forgives or even throws a party for the bad son. It’s that the good son is ignored in the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/68 "2002-11-20T15:31:44Z")
I agree. If its an analogy, then it seems to be saying if you are sinful, then come to God you are better off than if you’ve been good all along. ? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/69 "2002-11-20T15:47:09Z")
But aren’t you really better off if you have been good all along? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/70 "2002-11-20T15:48:35Z")
Yes! But thats what it seems to be saying there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/71 "2002-11-20T15:51:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*Right, but in the story, the supply isn’t infinite. \*\* Says who? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/72 "2002-11-20T15:57:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Says who? \*\* Says the story. If you can divide somebody’s property into thirds, give one third to somebody, and then have the person you gave it to spend his part till it’s gone, then that’s a finite amount. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/73 "2002-11-20T17:00:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **grienspace** and **Libertarian** , in dialogue_ > > What I find interesting as well is the father’s enabling his younger son to depart. I would assume the father is in no way obligated to dispense a portion of his estate while alive. Ergo we have all been enabled to leave God. > > Secondly, in the same chapter we find two other parables that imply a God who seek out the lost souls that are unable to return on their own. This is different from the passive father waiting.This suggests to me that there is no particular blueprint that we all must follow to achieve salvation. > > Thirdly, I find it significant that in all three parables imply a universal salvation for mankind. All 100 sheep, all ten coins, and all the father’s sons. After all, it seems there was no reason for the father to throw a party in this household (as the older son laments) until he had all his sons together again. > > Beautiful, Grienspace. Thank you. > > That He is. 🙂 > > Yes. 🙂 Have I told you guys lately that I love you? Thank you for that exchange! 🙂 **Captain Amazing** , parables are stories with a point, a moral if you will. They’re not intended as precise analogies – nobody (well, almost nobody) thinks that God is an unjust judge, or a bridegroom who will shut 50% of the bridesmaids out of the marriage ceremony, or several other metaphors that Jesus creates for Him. I think the key point is a sincere and heartfelt prayer posted elsewhere on this board in a religion thread: God, save me from getting what I deserve! The point is that if the minimum admission charge to Heaven is perfection, and none of us have attained it, then we’re S.O.L. – but God’s mercy is such that He waives the admission, gives “free passes” to friends of His Son who are willing to help out, sweep out the elephants’ stalls and such, out of love for Him. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/74 "2002-11-20T17:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by **spooje** :_ > > Doesn’t look like [the dad appreciates the good son]. I think the good son (for lack of a better term) is correct in assuming that the other son was his father’s favorite. > > I understand the moral of the story. And I have to assume that the party at the end was tha father celerating his own joy at his son’s return, not a reward for the son. But I think the concept of forgivness is badly illustrated here. ## That’s because you’re reading it purely as an analogy. I agree with you that the story is a bad example of parenting\*, but that’s actually, I believe, intentional. Remember, the point of a parable is to paint a picture of the thing being described in such a way that it **stands out starkly**. In this case, the thing is not the family drama, and it’s not the distribution of family assets, and it’s not the good or bad works of the two sons. And IMO it’s really not forgiveness either, but rather _inclusiveness_. The parable is telling us that God doesn’t pass out rewards based on accumulation of brownie points, that there’s not some divine heirarchy of love. The parable says _distinct rewards_ are unimportant; what’s important is each individual decision to seek God. Being with God is the reward, which is infinite, and to which all are entitled regardless of “worthiness”. -Apparently, those who choose the reward sooner have the benefit of infinity earlier, though. ( 😉 ) \*[sub]If anyone disputes the parenting aspect, please speak up; however, it’s a bit of a hijack, I think, and may deserve its own separate discussion.[/sub] Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out, and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/75 "2002-11-20T17:11:54Z")
Luke 15 The Parable of the Lost Sheep 1Now the tax collectors and “sinners” were all gathering around to hear him. 2But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” 3Then Jesus told them this parable: 4"Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. The Parable of the Lost Coin 8"Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[1] and loses one. Does she not light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." The Parable of the Lost Son 11Jesus continued: "There was a man who had two sons. 12The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. 13"Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. 17"When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired men.’ 20So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. 21"The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.[2] ’ 22"But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. 25"Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27’Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ 28"The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ 31” ‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ " ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/76 "2002-11-20T17:15:10Z")
I think the key point in this chapter is this: "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. " ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/77 "2002-11-20T17:29:06Z")
::: gives **Xeno** and **David** high fives ::: ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/78 "2002-11-20T21:56:26Z")
> [@](#): > > ## \*Originally posted by xenophon41 \* \*_That’s because you’re reading it purely as an analogy. I agree with you that the story is a bad example of parenting_, but that’s actually, I believe, intentional. Remember, the point of a parable is to paint a picture of the thing being described in such a way that it **stands out starkly**. In this case, the thing is not the family drama, and it’s not the distribution of family assets, and it’s not the good or bad works of the two sons. And IMO it’s really not forgiveness either, but rather _inclusiveness_. The parable is telling us that God doesn’t pass out rewards based on accumulation of brownie points, that there’s not some divine heirarchy of love. The parable says _distinct rewards_ are unimportant; what’s important is each individual decision to seek God. Being with God is the reward, which is infinite, and to which all are entitled regardless of “worthiness”. -Apparently, those who choose the reward sooner have the benefit of infinity earlier, though. ( 😉 ) \*[sub]If anyone disputes the parenting aspect, please speak up; however, it’s a bit of a hijack, I think, and may deserve its own separate discussion.[/sub] > > Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out, and your dog would go in. ~ Mark Twain \*\* All the parables are illustrations of God’s love for us, nothing more, nothing less. There is no hidden meaning, just God’s love for all His children, there are no special groups, all share equally in His love and protection. Logically it couldn’t be any other way. Love Leroy ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/79 "2002-11-20T22:38:02Z")
I understand the principles it’s trying to teach. But, I think the story is a rather poor attempt to teach them. I think the statement " G-d rejoices more over those who return to Him than those who have always been faithful." would be less confusing. The prodigal son is like an OP whose position I agree with but whose example is chosen very poorly. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931/80 "2002-11-21T00:10:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*All the parables are illustrations of God’s love for us, nothing more, nothing less. There is no hidden meaning, just God’s love for all His children, there are no special groups, all share equally in His love and protection. Logically it couldn’t be any other way. > > Love > Leroy \*\* IIRC, the general response to the parables was the people (including the disciples) staring at Jesus and thinking “Huh?” If there was all that easy, they wouldn’t have been that confused. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-prodigal-son/136931.md?page=5)