# The Progressive Case Against Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 29, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217 "2012-10-29T16:03:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/1 "2012-10-29T16:03:50Z")
[longtime liberal presents a scathing rebuke of Obama](http://www.salon.com/2012/10/27/the_progressive_case_against_obama/print/) > [@](#): > > Now, and this is subtle, I don’t think the case against voting for Obama is airtight. If you are willing to argue that Obama, though he has imposed an authoritarian architecture on the American system, is still a better choice than Romney, fine. I can respect honest disagreement. Here’s why I disagree with that analysis. If the White House were a video game where the player was all that mattered, voting for Obama would probably be the most reasonable thing to do. Romney is more likely to attack Iran, which would be just horrific (though Obama might do so as well, we don’t really know). But video game policymaking is not how politics actually works — the people themselves, what they believe and what they don’t, can constrain political leaders. And under Obama, because there is now no one making the anti-torture argument, Americans have becomemore tolerant of torture, drones, war and authoritarianism in general. The case againstObama is that the people themselves will be better citizens under a Romney administration, distrusting him and placing constraints on his behavior the way they won’t on Obama. As a candidate, Obama promised a whole slew of civil liberties protections, lying the whole time. Obama has successfully organized the left part of the Democratic Party into a force that had rhetorically opposed war and civil liberties violations, but now cheerleads a weakened America too frightened to put Osama bin Laden on trial. We must fight this thuggish political culture Bush popularized, and Obama solidified in place. As someone who was never a fan of Obama I wish that there was more civil discussion about these concerns and less focus on stupid side issues like “is he a Muslim” or “you must be a racist if you don’t love Obama” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/2 "2012-10-29T16:13:17Z")
That is a very narrow definition of Progressive. What about the Progressive ideals of equal protection that have been promoted by the signing of the Lily Leadbetter Act, the ending of DADT, the promotion of marriage equality. The promotion of better women’s health alternatives and choices, or health care security for the poor. These are also progressive ideals, important ones, and they are being well advanced by the Obama Administration. I get the argument, but I don’t buy it. Voting for Romney may promote some sort of abstract ideal of fomenting suspicion of the government, but it would then pout on the back burner the actual suffering folks would be under in a a Romney Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/3 "2012-10-29T16:22:08Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > That is a very narrow definition of Progressive. What about the Progressive ideals of equal protection that have been promoted by the signing of the Lily Leadbetter Act, the ending of DADT, the promotion of marriage equality. The promotion of better women’s health alternatives and choices, or health care security for the poor. These are also progressive ideals, important ones, and they are being well advanced by the Obama Administration. “Progressive” (as the word is used nowadays) means something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist” – in Euro terms, it means more or less the same as “social-democratic”. Everything you listed there is on the liberal agenda – all on the progressive agenda as well, of course; but the point is, these things do not make Obama a progressive. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/4 "2012-10-29T16:28:37Z")
One has to be practical and not let perfection get in the way of the possible. First step is to recognize that Mitt Romney would represent a tremendous step backward and must be rejected. Once Obama is safely elected, then is the time to try to nudge him in a more progressive direction. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/5 "2012-10-29T16:29:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Progressive” (as the word is used nowadays) means something well to the left of “liberal” and well to the right of “socialist” – in Euro terms, it means more or less the same as “social-democratic”. Everything you listed there is on the liberal agenda – all on the progressive agenda as well, of course; but the point is, these things do not make Obama a progressive. The article is not about making Obama a Progressive, the article is about why Progressives shouldn’t vote for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/6 "2012-10-29T16:31:40Z")
Translation: Obama has been a real world President instead of a fantasy world President. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/7 "2012-10-29T16:34:21Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > As someone who was never a fan of Obama I wish that there was more civil discussion about these concerns and less focus on stupid side issues like “is he a Muslim” or “you must be a racist if you don’t love Obama” These concerns are equally stupid. The US electorate doesn’t want a progressive President. They don’t want a right-wing president either, but if you hold out for Hippie Q. McFreakington, that’s what you’ll get. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/8 "2012-10-29T16:57:59Z")
I admit that I have not read, and have no intention of reading, the whole sorry unnecessarily long piece. Given the premise of the argument that Obama’s economic positions have benefited corporations, I did scan to see if the author was equally critical of Clinton for the same reasons. I saw no mention. I also looked to see if I could see what the author proposed doing. Apparently, one should vote for a third party candidate knowing that it will not functionally make a difference, but because it is “practice for crisis moments.” That it somehow will make a difference in terms of how we otherwise respond to social justice crisis moments. This is the kind of wooly headed nonsensical bullshit thinking that liberals are still getting tagged with. Yes, if my choice were between Obama and someone like Paul Wellstone, the calculus is dramatically different. But it just isn’t and so there’s doing something in order to practice for a crisis, and then there’s doing something that will dramatically hasten severe crisis upon us. My advice to progressives: don’t be stupid. Unless you loved you some Bush administration, then be pragmatic. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/9 "2012-10-29T17:41:40Z")
This and similar sentiments are the reasons why Democrats, liberals and progressives will never, ever be as politically competent or powerful as the GOP. Too much critical thinking about themselves! It’s time to fall in line guys. Don’t think about it. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/10 "2012-10-29T17:53:16Z")
This part is a joke: > [@](#): > > The case againstObama is that the people themselves will be better citizens under a Romney administration, distrusting him and placing constraints on his behavior the way they won’t on Obama. As it was shown under Bush, just because people are willing to speak up more and be less tolerant of a torture-supporting president doesn’t mean there are better ways to stop it. Besides, I reject his premise that Obama has done nothing on torture. It may not be to the degree that he wants, but Obama has not continued much of the policies of the previous administration ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/11 "2012-10-29T17:54:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Translation: Obama has been a real world President instead of a fantasy world President. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/12 "2012-10-29T20:00:24Z")
I would disagree that conservatives always fall in line. I think it’s widely accepted that one factor in why McCain lost was his trouble with exciting the conservative base (hence why they went with Palin in an effort to try to finally capture the enthusiasm of the base). Personally I would welcome it if there was some credible opposition to some of the violations of civil liberty that have occurred in the post-911 world but it almost seems like that issue has now just been considered “settled” in the mainstream at least. Nobody cares except the libertarians and the Greens. I have a family member who is voting Jill Stein incidentally. I don’t support her myself but I at least respect her stance on civil liberty. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/13 "2012-10-29T20:04:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > These concerns are equally stupid. 😕 No, they’re not. It might be stupid not to vote for Obama for the reasons stated in the OP, but it is not **equally** stupid not to vote for Obama because he is a Muslim or something, it’s much stupider. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/14 "2012-10-29T20:06:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Translation: Obama has been a real world President instead of a fantasy world President. Unfortunately, we don’t **live** in the real world; this is the Matrix. ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/15 "2012-10-29T20:26:42Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > This part is a joke: > As it was shown under Bush, just because people are willing to speak up more and be less tolerant of a torture-supporting president doesn’t mean there are better ways to stop it. Besides, I reject his premise that Obama has done nothing on torture. It may not be to the degree that he wants, but Obama has not continued much of the policies of the previous administration At least during the Bush years there was discussion about issues like closing Guantanamo and that was one of the big things Obama promised to address as prez. According to an article also in Salon a few months ago, [support for Guantanamo is now apparently at an all time high under Obama](http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/) and we’ve just come to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/16 "2012-10-29T21:03:54Z")
Environment, civil rights, health care… Future Supreme Court nominations… Who the hell are we supposed to vote for? Romney will be worse in any given respect. Show me a better 'ole, ducky. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/17 "2012-10-29T21:19:38Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > At least during the Bush years there was discussion about issues like closing Guantanamo and that was one of the big things Obama promised to address as prez. According to an article also in Salon a few months ago, [support for Guantanamo is now apparently at an all time high under Obama](http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/) and we’ve just come to accept it. Its probably high because we’re not doing any torturing. Its easy to support something if its out of sight and not creating naked human pyramids. I chalk that up to ignorance. Honestly, if Obama keeps Guantanamo open but doesn’t torture people like the former administration, I’d support him too ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/18 "2012-10-29T21:20:34Z")
Ultimately, “making the anti-torture argument” didn’t accomplish a thing during the Bush presidency. I fail to see how it would during a Romney presidency. One could also argue that people aren’t making the argument as much now because it’s not as relevant now, even if it’s still somewhat relevant. The argument basically boils down to “elect Romney so people will talk more about issues X, Y, and Z.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/19 "2012-10-29T21:54:59Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Besides, I reject his premise that Obama has done nothing on torture. He’s actively protecting torturers, including persecuting the whistleblower who confirmed the CIA was torturing prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2012, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217/20 "2012-10-29T22:00:29Z")
So, if we want to prevent war with Iran, we should elect the candidate more likely to go to war with Iran, because that will galvanize opposition to the idea, and the President will be unable to go to war in the face of the awesome power of anti-war protests? Yeah, not really buying that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-progressive-case-against-obama/639217.md?page=2)