Egotistical blowhard Ralph Nader got 97,488 votes in 2000 in Florida. That state provided the winning electoral votes to George W. Bush because he received 537 more votes than Al Gore.
We reelected the least Progressive President of our time - and the country went to hell in those final four years, both economically and internationally and wound up in two wars - because so-called Progressives let him in.
Instead of seeing this and making the smart decision in future elections, many will still throw away a vote for Jill Stein… Because that principled vote really worked out so well that time. :rolleyes:
But a key element of Obamacare that is often overlooked is that insurance companies must now spend 80 percent of premiums on actual health care, not on administrative costs, advertising, or profits. I’d rather the percentage be higher yet (or just do away with private insurance and go to single payer), but this is a very important element that takes away the incentive for insurance companies to do things like raise premiums just to squeeze out more profits.
I didn’t read your Greenwald quote because I **loathe **him and reading him just makes my blood pressure skyrocket. (And since I can’t get health care for at least another 14 months, I probably shouldn’t mess around with my BP.)
Again, though, I really wish anti-Obama progressives would seriously think about that phrase I mentioned: “check your privilege”. They are overwhelmingly white and affluent or at least comfortably middle class, and have little to fear personally from a Romney victory. I have never met someone who struggles paycheck to paycheck, or a person of colour, who hated on Obama (from the left, that is; obviously there are massive numbers of poor whites who stupidly act like Obamacare is destroying America despite their not having health insurance themselves).
I understand the progressive case for Obama and that’s why I’ve wrestled with the issue of whether to vote for him. And it’s completely logical to vote on issues that have an immediate bearing on your material well being than on something as abstract as the killing of brown folk halfway around the world. I get it. I just feel like if I vote for him, I’m voting for those policies…
In posting here, I was looking for a place to have a real dialogue about these issues, not so much to bring anybody to my side, but to develop a more nuanced and thoughtful view…
I’m an African American leftist critic of Obama, as is my mom. There may not be that many of us, but we do exist. You can find more at http://blackagendareport.com
People who say nonsense like this don’t give a flying fuck about Muslim Children or any other issue. They just want that warm feeling in their belly that comes from knowing they are so very very precious and pure, so much Better people than the ignorant sheeple who surround them. This is why it does no good to point out the obvious fact that their effective vote for Mitt Romney will, if Mitt wins, result in more drone strikes, war with Iran, and a continuation or expansion of everything they don’t like about Obama as well as other new and horrible things.
In the foreign policy debate Romney agreed with the drone program , so of the two choices none. As a New Yorker, I felt completely at ease casting my vote this morning for a candidate who has not endorsed this policy. It’s symbolic, I know.
That only makes sense if you are simply voting for or against Obama. You’re not. You’re voting for him or for Mitt Romney. Think Romney will stop doing any of those things?
ETA: okay, if your vote is meaningless it doesn’t matter.
I can’t speak for other people, but I’m pretty sincere. I cared under Bush (marched against the Iraq war, voted for Kerry, etc) and I care under Obama (a man for whom I cried tears of joy when he was elected). But I cannot give him a pass on this issue (among a few others). Wrong is wrong whether it’s done by a Democrat or a Republican.
Right, exactly. I don’t think that deep down they really want their preferred left wing candidate to ever be actually elected, because then they would have to take responsibility for whatever compromises that person might make when actually in office. Much better to be able to be purer-than-thou, endlessly carping from the sidelines.
Okay, fair enough. (I wonder whether there are more of you, or more Allan Wests and Clarence Thomases, in the country…certainly not many of either.)
ETA: As Really Not says, being in a non-swing state makes the issue of the OP’s vote less meaningful, though s/he may be influencing others online who do live in swing states. I have a good friend who explicitly urges people who live in swing states to vote for Obama, but he (in Oregon) is voting for Jill Stein and exhorts others who are in non-swing states to do the same. I don’t really have a problem with that.
Other than marching with the unions and Occupy, I haven’t done too much. Still trying to decide what kind of action or what specific organization I should lend my time to.
As far as trying to convince people on this board of something, I thought I made it pretty clear that I was only trying to foster a dialog, as I’m not 100% sure of where I stand (on the merits if voting for Obama) myself. The only thing I am sure of is that asserting the right to kill Americans without due process and the whole drone program the way it is currently carried out (as detailed by the NYT and Washington Post) is plain wrong. Oh, and had Bush done the things I detailed above, Dems would be out protesting with the quickness.