# The propaganda around the Russian ship Moskva **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833 "2022-04-14T18:33:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/41 "2022-04-15T01:00:50Z")
Also, somewhat inevitably over the past 30-some years, anyone in Russia aware of navy issues would have a kind of low expectation of the condition of the fleet. See elsewhere on this site: [Kuznetsov saga](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/6). Or for something far more tragic and horrifying remember the [Kursk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster). So hearing that one of the vessels while actively engaged in war operations had a major malfunction that left it a total write-off is not as “shameful” as, like **HMS\_Irruncible** mentions, being got the better of by those bloody peasants. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/42 "2022-04-15T01:08:00Z")
You sank my battleship! 😱 ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/43 "2022-04-15T02:21:43Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Thank you for that insight. I had no idea. Take this for what it’s worth; Operator Starsky is a press officer in the Ukrainian military, so is clearly not without bias. Russian World/Russian Peace: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/h4WEBwsuQf0/hqdefault.jpg "Russian World. Have you heard about it?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4WEBwsuQf0) ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/44 "2022-04-15T02:56:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Also, somewhat inevitably over the past 30-some years, anyone in Russia aware of navy issues would have a kind of low expectation of the condition of the fleet. See elsewhere on this site: [Kuznetsov saga](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/6). Or for something far more tragic and horrifying remember the [Kursk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster). So hearing that one of the vessels while actively engaged in war operations had a major malfunction that left it a total write-off is not as “shameful” as, like **HMS\_Irruncible** mentions, being got the better of by those bloody peasants. The Moska should have been able to detect and avoid these missiles and for some reason did not - and that may be one reason why the Russians are presenting this as an accident. They don’t want Ukraine or the West to know that their detection systems didn’t work as advertised. If it is true of this ship, it may be true of other ships that have similar systems. I suspect a lot of their stuff isn’t working as advertised and that’s not something they want anyone to know. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/45 "2022-04-15T03:30:54Z")
More than that - that ship’s primary function was to protect the rest of the fleet from missile attack - to have lost _that_ ship to missile attack really lays bare how awful the Russian military are. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/46 "2022-04-15T03:36:57Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > that ship’s primary function was to protect the rest of the fleet from missile attack To give credit where it’s due, it did succeed in that mission with respect to _one_ missile. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/47 "2022-04-15T03:41:37Z")
Reminds me of Melvin, the superhero puppet (1:19 for the right bit) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/GabqsZulUOk/maxresdefault.jpg ""Meet Melvin: Da-da-da-dahhh!" | Spark of Insanity | JEFF DUNHAM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GabqsZulUOk) “Can you stop a speeding bullet?” “Once.” ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/48 "2022-04-15T05:37:18Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > To give credit where it’s due, it did succeed in that mission with respect to _one_ missile. Shame then it was hit with two … ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/49 "2022-04-15T07:34:50Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > To give credit where it’s due, it did succeed in that mission with respect to _one_ missile. Brings to mind the old electronics about the $500 component protected by a 50¢ fuse (it will protect the fuse by blowing first). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/50 "2022-04-15T10:20:15Z")
deleted (stolen joke actually not that funny) ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/51 "2022-04-15T10:46:21Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > The Moska should have been able to detect and avoid these missiles and for some reason did not - and that may be one reason why the Russians are presenting this as an accident. Apparently, the Moskva might have been “distracted” by decoy Ukrainian drones at the time of the attack. I’ve seen reports that mention this as fact and some that say it is still unconfirmed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/52 "2022-04-15T11:24:10Z")
For modern anti-missile systems that are working well and being operated properly, this shouldn’t have mattered; such modern detection systems are easily capable of detecting multiple threats at the same time (certainly far more than 3), and modern close-in-weapons-systems (CIWS) are very capable of engaging multiple threats at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/53 "2022-04-15T11:31:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > such modern detection systems are easily capable of detecting multiple threats at the same time The going rumor is that while this may be true, the system needs to be aimed in a particular direction and is blind outside its field of view. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/54 "2022-04-15T11:39:17Z")
Perhaps. But I believe US ships have redundant systems which eliminate such blind spots. I would imagine that properly functioning Russian ships do too. Which is another way of saying that the Russian Navy may, logistically and technically speaking, be operating as poorly as the Russian Army. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/55 "2022-04-15T11:52:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Which is another way of saying that the Russian Navy may, logistically and technically speaking, be operating as poorly as the Russian Army. Conventional wisdom says that a country must choose between sea power and land power, or both will suffer. The US is the only exception. Russia/USSR could have been a formidable land power, but they clung to the ambition of being a dual power like the US. Consequently, both strategies are severely under-resourced (but especially the Navy). ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/56 "2022-04-15T13:12:09Z")
Ukraine likely also had/has the advantage of being intimately familiar with the capabilities and limitations of Soviet-era systems, both from being a former Soviet Socialist Republic itself and from literally having built the [_Moskva_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cruiser_Moskva). If you look under “builder” she was constructed at 61 Kommunara Shipbuilding Plant, which is the modern day [Mykolayiv Shipyard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykolayiv_Shipyard) located in Mykolaiv, Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/57 "2022-04-15T13:42:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > . See elsewhere on this site: [Kuznetsov saga](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russian-dry-dock-sinks-with-aircraft-carrier-inside/824064/6) Hah! That fiasco followed this one with the poor old Kuznetsov. [Russia’s Massive ‘Ship of Shame’ Heads for Repairs After Pumping Black Smoke on the Way to Syria (newsweek.com)](https://www.newsweek.com/russias-massive-ship-shame-heads-repair-after-smoking-way-syria-735540) > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Which is another way of saying that the Russian Navy may, logistically and technically speaking, be operating as poorly as the Russian Army. I would wager that it’s a virtual certainty. For the most part, wartime naval operations aren’t that different than peacetime ones, except that _very_ infrequently you fire missiles or get hit by them. So what that means in practical terms is that the navies that have the $$$ to actually deploy and do stuff are much more likely to be effective in wartime because they’ve had the practice sailing, using their radars, and so forth. I kind of get the impression that the Russians aren’t exactly sailing their fleets all over the world all the time like the US and Royal Navies do and this is the result. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/58 "2022-04-15T14:04:07Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Hah! That fiasco followed this one with the poor old Kuznetsov. If we’re going to discuss Russian naval fubars, I’m obliged to post about the Baltic fleet [(video)](https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/59 "2022-04-15T14:10:56Z")
There was a recent Russian Naval exercise near Ireland that Irish fisherman disrupted. So they do train, but no, not like the US or UK. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833/60 "2022-04-15T14:39:04Z")
Using the drone as a spotter/distraction should be basically irrelevant - on a ship like that you shouldn’t have to steer your radar and pick which target/direction you’re tracking. The radar system on the ship can most likely track dozens of targets while also looking out for new ones in every direction. At least by design. So either the equipment is really broken down, or their crew is wildly incompetent, or both. A four missile attack on a ship of that type should be very easy to defeat. Pretty much any ship in the US navy down to a frigate would’ve been fine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-propaganda-around-the-russian-ship-moskva/962833.md?page=4)