# The Proverbs of Zenobius--where to find? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405 "2010-09-28T23:13:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/1 "2010-09-28T23:13:26Z")
Greek author, from Classical Era—Zenobius. Where can I find a copy of his book, _The Proverbs of Zenobius_, in English, not Greek? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/2 "2010-10-04T07:50:27Z")
Try [worldcat.org](http://worldcat.org), for a compilation of various library catalogs. I didn’t have much luck admittedly, though I only skimmed about half of the records for Zenobius. There are editions in Ancient Greek, Modern Greek, Latin, Italian and German. I don’t know what to make of this entry: [http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/561022557&referer=brief\_results](http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/561022557&referer=brief_results) or this one [http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/504352833&referer=brief\_results](http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/504352833&referer=brief_results) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/3 "2010-10-04T12:59:49Z")
I don’t think it was ever translated into English. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/4 "2010-10-04T21:23:07Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t think it was ever translated into English. Sadly…I think you’re right.☹ For the first time in _years_…the SDMB has truly failed me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/5 "2010-10-04T22:18:03Z")
How did the SDMB fail you, assuming that no English translation exists? Did you expect the SDMB to translate it for you? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/6 "2010-10-05T20:59:43Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > How did the SDMB fail you, assuming that no English translation exists? Did you expect the SDMB to translate it for you? [ol] [li]I had hoped to find an obscure edition. The SDMB is the place to ask.[/li][li]Hi **Opal** [/li][li]Re–translation. I’ve seen _more_ amazing results here than that.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/7 "2010-10-05T21:24:53Z")
Sorry if I sounded snarky. But I don’t agree with the idea that every question can be answered here. There are plenty of things that cannot (although I am frequently amazed at the obscure ones that do get answered). And it’s not true that this the right place to get every question answered. Especially for specialty questions, there are better places to get answers. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/8 "2010-10-05T21:26:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sorry if I sounded snarky. But I don’t agree with the idea that every question can be answered here. There are plenty of things that cannot (although I am frequently amazed at the obscure ones that do get answered). And it’s not true that this the right place to get every question answered. Especially for specialty questions, there are better places to get answers. And in reference to my OP?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/9 "2010-10-05T23:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Next time you find yourself with a Greek translation request, whether one page or one thousand, be it a birth certificate or a chemical patent, software strings or medical inserts, a mutual fund annual report or a cotton picker User’s Guide, give us a call at (xxx) xxx-xxxx or Email for a quote. > > We’ll put together from our team the best qualified translator and editor for your particular subject matter. We’ll see to it that your job is delivered on time, within budget and without headaches. That and online translations is probably what you are left with. [http://www.greektranslations.com/services.html](http://www.greektranslations.com/services.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/10 "2010-10-06T00:33:50Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Sorry if I sounded snarky. But I don’t agree with the idea that every question can be answered here. And beyond that, the question was answered, and the answer is that no one has yet translated the Proverbs into English and no English translation yet exists. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/11 "2010-10-06T03:41:31Z")
Here’s a compilation of ancient Greek proverbs, translated into English. It includes the writings of Zenobius and others. Professors Leutsch and Schneidewin from the University of Gottingen labored on this project from 1839 to 1851. > **[Amazon.com: Corpus Paroemiographorum Graecorum: Volume 1, Paroemiographi Graeci:...](https://www.amazon.com/Corpus-Paroemiographorum-Graecorum-Paroemiographi-Proverbiorum/dp/1108015530)** > > Amazon.com: Corpus Paroemiographorum Graecorum: Volume 1, Paroemiographi Graeci: Zenobius, Diogenianus, Plutarchus, Gregorius Cyprius cum Appendice Proverbiorum ... - Classics) (Ancient Greek Edition): 9781108015530: Leutsch, E. L. von, Schneidewin,... ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/12 "2010-10-06T04:05:22Z")
Ok, the Amazon link is misleading: the only thing in English is a 2010 preface. See Google Books: [http://books.google.com/books?id=b3mN62h8bMEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Corpus+Paroemiographorum+Graecorum&source=bl&ots=e749xY9aeX&sig=jIUXGSmralUFCly5nikntb7jygA&hl=en&ei=cPCrTOjBIpDSsAOE0J3YAw&sa=X&oi=book\_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false](http://books.google.com/books?id=b3mN62h8bMEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Corpus+Paroemiographorum+Graecorum&source=bl&ots=e749xY9aeX&sig=jIUXGSmralUFCly5nikntb7jygA&hl=en&ei=cPCrTOjBIpDSsAOE0J3YAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q&f=false) This book contains a few proverbs by Zenobius. 20 Euros: [http://www.translatum.gr/etexts/pk/introen.htm](http://www.translatum.gr/etexts/pk/introen.htm) Examples without author: [http://www.translatum.gr/etexts/pk/proverbs-greek.htm](http://www.translatum.gr/etexts/pk/proverbs-greek.htm) Another collection of Greek proverbs: [http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/2849242/Description#tabnav](http://yufind.library.yale.edu/yufind/Record/2849242/Description#tabnav) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/13 "2010-10-06T21:22:13Z")
So, a generalized collection of Greek Proverbs is my best bet? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/14 "2010-10-07T05:50:01Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > So, a generalized collection of Greek Proverbs is my best bet? Not sure: What’s your purpose? What’s your budget? Personally, I think we should be spending stimulus dollars on this translation, but I don’t run the country. (Also, I have no particular knowledge of classical literature; I just found the question interesting enough to poke around the internet.) It would be a pretty cool project to scan the relevant parts of _Corpus Paroemiographorum Graecorum_, then run them through a couple of computer translators. Heck, you might even be able to self-publish the thing and distribute it to a few university libraries. Maybe. Just saying. I see that there is an [American Foundation for Greek Language and Culture](http://www.afglc.org/). ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/15 "2010-10-07T12:45:34Z")
I’m astonished that the Loeb Classical Library (published in the US by Harvard University Press) doesn’t have an edition of Zenobius. But it’s not the first time I’ve encountered such a gap in their coverage – they don’t have the _Poetic Astronomy_, either. The Perseus Project online lists nothing, either, and only has a handful of references to him, one of which, the reliable Smith’s Encyclopedia of Antiquities has a brief entry that lists no English editions (as of the late 19th century). [A Dictionary of Greek and Roman biography and mythology, Zacharias, Zacharias, Zeno'bius](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0104%3Aalphabetic+letter%3DZ%3Aentry+group%3D1%3Aentry%3Dzenobius-bio-1) This discussion page from a Classics list notes no English editions, either: [http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/?cat=134](http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/?cat=134) (It’s one of the references on the Wikipedia page on Zenobius) ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/16 "2010-10-07T14:28:32Z")
Who is this Zenobius guy? I am from Greece and have never heared him. Is it this one: [Zenobius - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenobius) or this one: [Zenodotus - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenodotus) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/17 "2010-10-07T14:43:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Who is this Zenobius guy? Your first one, I’m pretty sure. The Smith entry I cite above says that the Proverb collector is sometimes “erroneously called Zenodotus”. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/18 "2010-10-07T21:59:07Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > Who is this Zenobius guy? I am from Greece and have never heared him. Is it this one: [Zenobius - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenobius) > > or this one: [Zenodotus - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenodotus) A, not B. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/19 "2010-10-08T01:39:05Z")
So **Dog80** , regarding Zenobius, [is he any good](http://books.google.com/books?id=OUMOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false)? ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405/20 "2010-10-08T02:46:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > So **Dog80** , regarding Zenobius, [is he any good](http://books.google.com/books?id=OUMOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false)? Thanks for the link. These aren’t proverbs [like these](http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sstm/wpoverbs.htm). It is more like a list of idioms and expressions of the time and most of them make absolutely no sense outside the context of the era. For example, number 3. **Αγαθά Κυλλικών** translates as Goods of Killikon. According to the explanation Killikon was a guy who became rich by betraying his hometown. Or Number 5, **Αγορά Κερκώπων** , market of [Kerkopes](http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Kerkopes.html), according to the explanation it is said for wicked, ill-meaning people. This book might be useful to a scholar but it is not amusing to read so it is not surprising it was never translated to English. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-proverbs-of-zenobius-where-to-find/555405.md?page=2)