Possibly. But then I think they wouldn’t be wearing camouflage military uniforms in a civilian airport.
No one says they have to applaud.
I think it’s absolutely ridiculous. I’ve never seen it done, but if I did, I sure as hell would keep my ass firmly planted in my seat, doing whatever I was doing.
My sister is an Air Force cadet. To the vast majority of people, the uniform they all wear at the Academy looks simply like a uniform. When she’s out in public, I’ve seen people come up to her, thank her for her service, etc. I don’t have the heart to point out that what they’re doing is thanking a college student for leeching a free education out of their tax dollars.
The group of military folk you see walking through the airport could be on their way to Iraq. Or, they could be on their way to a military base in Kansas, where they will spend the next 18 months answering phones and filing triplicate copies of paperwork. They signed up for military service, regardless of what that may entail, and they’re following through with their committment. Is holding to your word that rare in American society that we literally stand up and applaud when people do it?
Come to think of it… probably so. But I think the Snopes story said that the airline identified the soldiers as being home on two-week furlough from Iraq.
[quoteOriginally posted by NinjaChick
I don’t have the heart to point out that what they’re doing is thanking a college student for leeching a free education out of their tax dollars.[/quote]
Did you have the heart to tell your sister you think Air Force cadets are leeches?
Well I’m a Canadian and against the invasion but I’d consider myself a grade A jerk to demand a seat over an American soldier returning from a war zone.
I can understand wanting to show appreciation: medal ceremonies, public holidays, proper pension/pay/benefits. I think they’d appreciate that last one the most. Personally, a spontaneous show of adoration by strangers in an airport creeps me out a little. I guess that’s why I decided not to be a rock star.
Exactly. Not to mention, when I was 18 I went to college, and while Agnes Scott was rather between two ghettoes, there weren’t many flying bullets, car bombs, or friendly fire on my way to class. Those extremely young-looking kids are probably going to go to war. Some of them will die. That’s why it’s distressing.
Which is… ?
That it makes no difference. The protestors never blamed the soldiers, that was a slander dreamed up by the Right. Repeated often enough, it becomes history, without any necessity of ever being true.
It will happen again, you can almost guarantee it. As the debacle of Iraq becomes more apparent.
“Well, we could have won, we were doing the right thing, but the liberals tied our hands and undermined our determination. Hadn’t been for them, Iraq would be a shining beacon of Democracy, white picket fences and Starbuck’s franchises everywhere…”
Bet on it.
That you have to wave the flag like a maniac or people will accuse you of spitting on soldiers.
I wasn’t aware they had a choice.
Anyone with more knowledge?
And also wanted to add my name to the list of people puzzled by the idea that Democrats would protest. First of all, the correlation between party and war approval is something lower than .9999. More importantly, nearly everyone I’ve heard discuss their objections to the war frames their disagreement as lying with the Bush administration. Not the troops. Even the keenest, most rabid war protestor would have little reason or motivation to protest the passage of military personnel through the corridors of an airport. I happen to think the war bites donkey ass, and I got choked up at that commercial. I’m a troop-lovin’ war hater. Go figure. I hear I’m not a rare breed.
Actually, I doubt it. I’ve never heard anyone say that “we would have won Vietnam if hadn’t been for those meddling kids” who wasn’t an extreme nutbag like Limbaugh. Indeed, many on the Right disagreed with the US’s involvement in Vietnam.
If Iraq turns into some kind of intractible quagmire (which it’s too soon to call [I realize that this is a disappointment to many who’d like nothing better than to crow about yet another failure of this administration), I seriously doubt that anyone will be blaming anti-war protestors (Let’s see, when was the last time an anti-war protest garnered national attention? A couple of years ago. Kind of hard to blame the current mess in Iraq on them.) Plus, it’s not like there’s not ample evidence that the current admin is depriving our troops of the resources they need.
If the soldiers are flying as a unit, or flying directly to Iraq, it’s likely they’ll be in uniform.
When I was in the Navy, I wore civilian clothing most of the times I flew. There were good reasons for this, including the fact that being identified as a military member in a great many places instantly makes you a target.
In my work as a Tomahawk expert, I’ve had occasion to visit a great many Navy ships. One of these was the USS Stethem, named for a Seabee, Robert Stethem. In one of the noteworthy hijackings of the 1980’s, he was identified by the Hezbollah terrorists as a sailor because he was flying on his ID card, rather than a passport.
They tortured hum, killed him, and then dumped his corpse on the tarmac. All Stethem was trying to do was to fly home.
So folks can place it, Stethem was killed in the TWA 847 hijacking.
The soldiers in the story were flying from Iraq. The story said that they had previously had on civilian garb, but used their uniforms as a change of clothes.
Yes, in fact, not that it’s at all relevant to this debate. I’ll say that we’ve had several frank exchanges of opinions on the topic, get along fine, and I’ll leave it at that.
I still don’t see how that makes it different from anyone else travelling for business. When someone joins the armed forces, they say “Hey, I’m going to spend x amount of time in the army/navy/etc, and if they send me to fight someplace, I’ll go and fight someplace.” Then, they do that. I don’t see how that’s more noble.
I know the argument that may be trotted out: It’s dangerous, they’re defending freedom, etc. Okay - I wholeheartedly agree that it’s a highly dangerous occupation. No argument there. Police are probably put in just as much danger, in reality, as soldiers. I’ve never once seen anyone applaud a group of police officers. Boo, criticize, jeer at, insult, and taunt? Yep, seen that. Cops are volunteers, they do everything they can to keep you safe, and they sure as hell have a damn dangerous job. Yet there’s rarely, if ever, any public acts of adoration for cops.
I just don’t understand the double standard: Someone doing their job in the army = stand up and cheer. Someone doing their job in the police force = “I pay your salary, don’t write me a ticket!”
Um, well… I’m not sure that any explanation would suffice. I mean, you already know the facts. You already know that the greatest danger a businessman faces is getting his thumb stuck in his briefcase. If I told you that soldiers risk their lives with every breath they take, it wouldn’t be new knowledge. So, we’re just left with your not seeing how it’s any different.
I think NC has a point. We romantacize our soldiers in times of war, as though each and every enlistee were motivated solely by a fierce desire to protect the homeland. We know this isn’t true, but we would prefer to ignore it. There are a variety of reasons to enlist, no doubt many of them are noble, no doubt many of them are entirely self-serving.
So let us honor them all as though they were all of a kind, nothng wrong with that. But let’s not forget that that is what we are doing. Those who a properly so honored deserve it, and perhaps those that are not will be inspired by it.
I have a feeling this stems from Ninja Chick’s jealousy of seeing her sister get revered for wearing the uniform. “But wait, she didn’t fight in any wars. Its always Marsh, Marsha, Marsha.” I’m curious to hear why she thinks Air Force cadets are leaches.
We also know that when our heart stirs upon hearing the voice of our beloved, it is nothing more than synaptic discharges — chemical baths of electrically charged neurons. But we do not tell our loved one, “You make my brain fart.”
Or not. They don’t matter.
Luckily for my own dignity this thread is in great debates, so I won’t shame myself by using words and expressing feelings I really have towards you on this matter.
But let me say nonetheless that you are showing great ignorance as to how the Academies work if you consider your sister a leech.
Firstly the second your sister joined the United States Air Force Academy she did the same thing that I did when I joined the United States Military Academy, she became a member of the United States Armed Forces. Cadets are no longer civilians. The rank of cadet is the lowest rank in the military, even lower than private. However nonetheless in time of grave emergencies these cadets could be sent off to war to defend this country and they’d have no more legal standing to complain about it than any enlisted man in the regular Army, Navy, or Air Force.
Secondly an Academy education isn’t a “college” education. You don’t go there and then take a job in the private sector when you are through. Your sister is legally bound to serve on active duty for six years after completing her studies at the Air Force Academy. Refusal to do so would carry with it the same penalties that anyone else would receive for taking military money for college and then refusing to serve.
The Academies are considered to be “ultra elite” forms of OCS. They are not a civilian university or college like VMI that desires to instill discipline but is not necessarily geared towards a military career (only 18% of VMI graduates go to the military.)
The Academies are extremely competitive in admission, something like 12,000 per year apply and around 1200 get admitted. Considering the purpose of the Academy is to train the best of the best officers it is functionally no different from OCS. So unless you think “regular” officers should have to pay the federal government to be trained at OCS, or enlisted men should have to pay the federal government for basic training, your opinions are those of someone who is not looking at this very logically.
Your sister is receiving military training that’s as simple as it gets. We don’t make our soldiers pay for their training here in the United States. And when she gradutes no matter how she serves the Air Force she will be providing national defense that’s not something that happens just because people like you pay your taxes.
The leeches are people who take subsidized federal loans, federal grants, state scholarships et cetera and then do virtually nothing to ever really pay back the government that provided them with aid that was far more valuable than it’s dollar value would suggest.
Your sister has a very uncaring sibling, and I regret for her that she seems to be so mistreated by someone who should love and support her.