# The Public Option is Not Dead, But Liars are Trying to Kill It **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561 "2010-02-26T19:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/1 "2010-02-26T19:58:53Z")
The public option continues to enjoy plurality (and possibly majority) support: > [@](#): > > Maine residents > > “Obama/Congressional health reform proposal” > 39% support, 46% oppose > > “The plan could include a government insurance option or it could have the government negotiate with private insurers to have them offer insurance that meets specifications. Which of these two approaches would you prefer?” > > 44% of Mainers support a public option > 28% support greater controls on insurance companies > 4% support both equally > 16% are against both kinds of reform. > > [http://www.marketdecisions.com/docs/86.MainersOpiniononHealthReformReport.doc](http://www.marketdecisions.com/docs/86.MainersOpiniononHealthReformReport.doc) > [@](#): > > What would make you more likely to vote for Democrats in the 2010 elections: If they pass health care reform that includes a public health insurance option but gets zero Republican votes OR if they pass health care reform without a public option but with some Republican votes? > > ```auto > > FIGHT BIPARTISANSHIP NOT SURE > NEVADA (Reid) > ALL 53% 40% 9% > INDEPENDENTS 56% 33% 11% > OBAMA VOTERS 77% 11% 12% > ILLINOIS (Durbin, Burris) > ALL 61% 30% 9% > INDEPENDENTS 68% 25% 7% > OBAMA VOTERS 79% 10% 11% > > ``` > > ```auto > > QUESTION: Do you favor or oppose the health care reform bill passed in December by the U.S. Senate? > FAVOR OPPOSE NOT SURE > NEVADA (Reid) > ALL 34% 58% 8% > INDEPENDENTS 32% 61% 7% > OBAMA VOTERS 46% 44% 10% > ILLINOIS (Durbin, Burris) > ALL 37% 53% 10% > INDEPENDENTS 28% 61% 11% > OBAMA VOTERS 51% 39% 10% > > ``` > > ```auto > > QUESTION: Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of buying into a government administered health insurance plan -- something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get -- that would compete with private health insurance plans? > > ``` > > ``` > FAVOR OPPOSE NOT SURE > > ``` > > NEVADA (Reid) > ALL 56% 38% 6% > INDEPENDENTS 61% 35% 4% > OBAMA VOTERS 75% 13% 12% > ILLINOIS (Durbin, Burris) > ALL 68% 26% 6% > INDEPENDENTS 69% 22% 9% > OBAMA VOTERS 87% 6% 7% > > ```auto > > QUESTION: What comes closer to the lesson you think Democrats should learn from the recent Senate election in Massachusetts, where the seat formerly held by Ted Kennedy was won by a Republican: "Voters want Democrats to slow down and try to do less." OR, "Voters are upset about the slow pace of change - and will hold Democrats accountable if they refuse to use their power to fight special interests on behalf of regular people." > > ``` > > ``` > MORE CHANGE SLOW CHANGE NOT SURE > > ``` > > NEVADA (Reid) > ALL 56% 23% 21% > INDEPENDENTS 37% 26% 37% > OBAMA VOTERS 67% 22% 11% > ILLINOIS (Durbin, Burris) > ALL 54% 25% 21% > INDEPENDENTS 57% 20% 23% > OBAMA VOTERS 71% 13% 16% > > ```auto > > (go to the link below for info on more states) > > http://act.boldprogressives.org/cms/sign/poll_national_20100220/%3C/p%3E%3Cp%3E > > ``` Yet, conservatives are [claiming](http://mediamatters.org/research/201002220019)that it’s dead and has been for a while: > [@](#): > > Fox News’ Fox & Friends - February 22, 2010 > > PERINO: All year long, we talked about the public option. The public option is the thing that the public itself rejected resoundedly, which is why the Democrats are now coming up with this health care summit. As have [others](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/in-polls-much-opposition-to-health-care.html): > [@](#): > > Ipsos/McClatchy put out a health care poll two weeks ago. The topline results were nothing special: 34 percent favored “the health care reform proposals presently being discussed”, versus 46 percent opposed, and 20 percent undecided. The negative-12 net score is roughly in line with the average of other polls, although the Ipsos poll shows a higher number of undecideds than most others. > > Ipsos, however, did something that no other pollster has done. They asked the people who opposed the bill why they opposed it: because they are opposed to health care reform and thought the bill went too far? Or because they support health care reform but thought the bill didn’t go far enough? > … > > One way to look at this: 43 percent of people favor health care reform, whereas 38 percent oppose it (20 percent are undecided). But the actual plan under consideration gets numbers that are more or less the reverse of that – 34 percent in favor, 46 percent opposed – b_ecause a significant number of people think the plan doesn’t go far enough_. > > So, the public option (construed as a government-run health insurance plan that is open to everyone), is still supported by most people. And yet, there is considerable opposition to Obama’s and the Dems’ plan. Time and time again, all opposition to the healthcare reform is reported as coming from the right, as involving too much government intervention and management. This creates a dynamic where the misleading reporting causes legislators to back off and adopt a more conciliatory approach to conservatives–or at least conservatives ideas on healthcare economics. Meanwhile, more Americans, seeing the _current_ reform bill for what it is–a giant bailout and subsidy of the health insurance companies–begin to oppose it. I think this is a perfect example of how misrepresentation of facts by the media has enormously detrimental effects on the legislative process. The media reports all opposition to the health plan as coming from the right, the liberals who want real reform become disgusted with Congressional Dems’ pussyfooting and stop supporting this compromise, leading to more reports of opposition to the health plan… etc. Meanwhile, a [Kaiser poll](http://www.kff.org/kaiserpolls/upload/7943.pdf) found that 50% of Americans support “Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan” and [64% of Americans support](http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/resources/PollMemo.pdf) “expanding Medicare to all Americans, so that people have another option besides private health insurance or an HMO. Do you favor or oppose the creation of this type of public health plan option?” So there is majority support for single-payer, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/2 "2010-02-26T20:11:59Z")
As usual Jon Stewart has some [interesting things to say about this](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/25/stewart-skewers-gop-for-d_n_476253.html). From that link: “That’s right, I forgot, Democrats are pussies.” -Jon Stewart Spot on as always… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/3 "2010-02-26T20:19:10Z")
A public option is the minimum that will put downward pressure on insurance company gouging. .UHC would be much better. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/4 "2010-02-26T20:19:20Z")
The polls are great and all, but I think the jist of the statement is that there is not sufficient support in the Senate for a public option. Public sentiment isn’t a good predictor of the chances of one particular policy or another being enacted. Now, if health care reform proceeds through reconciliation and only 51 votes are required (as opposed to 60 to defeat a filibuster), perhaps another look will be taken at the public option. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/5 "2010-02-26T20:30:22Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The polls are great and all, but I think the jist of the statement is that there is not sufficient support in the Senate for a public option. Public sentiment isn’t a good predictor of the chances of one particular policy or another being enacted. > > Now, if health care reform proceeds through reconciliation and only 51 votes are required (as opposed to 60 to defeat a filibuster), perhaps another look will be taken at the public option. But I’m talking about public opinion, and the effect of the media’s coverage of polls on the legislative process. _I’m arguing that these are not isolated variables_. And, as you can see from the references, conservatives have specifically and repeatedly claimed that the majority of the American _public_ is against. And that’s a huge fucking lie. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/6 "2010-02-26T20:43:17Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > A public option is the minimum that will put downward pressure on insurance company gouging. .UHC would be much better. Well, that’s a whole 'nother argument. As you can see, a majority of Americans has consistently supported single-payer / Medicare for all. Gee, I wonder why that’s not even under consideration. And I’m no longer sure that the public option, in its current incarnation, would accomplish this. There are a whole set of restrictions on it that would limit the number of people eligible for it, driving up premium costs in the process. There is no justifiable reason for not moving to single payer, but if we are going to use the public option as a stepping stone, everyone must be eligible for it. That’s real competition. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/7 "2010-02-26T20:46:39Z")
If the majority of the people support the current bills then Democrats wouldn’t be hiding in the tall grass looking for spin time in front of a camera. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/8 "2010-02-26T20:51:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If the majority of the people support the current bills then Democrats wouldn’t be hiding in the tall grass looking for spin time in front of a camera. Yep, this is exactly what I’m talking about. Aside from the bizarre contention that Democrats are “hiding,” you are not actually disputing the poll numbers, which consistently show support for the public option. I guess I could ask for a cite, but that would be like sticking bullshit on a toothpick, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/9 "2010-02-26T21:05:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If the majority of the people support the current bills then Democrats wouldn’t be hiding in the tall grass looking for spin time in front of a camera. If the republicans hadn’t done their best to demonize the bill by lying through their teeth about it most people would. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/10 "2010-02-26T21:17:41Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > If the republicans hadn’t done their best to demonize the bill by lying through their teeth about it most people would. That’s what I hate. Lie about a bill to the public, then quote poll numbers to support your opposition. “Would you support a health-care bill that kills kittens”? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/11 "2010-02-26T21:25:45Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > That’s what I hate. Lie about a bill to the public, then quote poll numbers to support your opposition. “Would you support a health-care bill that kills kittens”? Great. I know you’ll want to pop over to the abortion thread in which a poster claims that if abortion is restricted, a miscarriage will be investigated to see if the mother’s “bad thoughts” might have had a role in the miscarriage. That kind of statement to garner support for your position is just outrageous, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/12 "2010-02-26T21:37:09Z")
Mind if we call you “Stretch”? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/13 "2010-02-26T21:40:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I know you’ll want to pop over to the abortion thread in which a poster claims that if abortion is restricted, a miscarriage will be investigated to see if the mother’s “bad thoughts” might have had a role in the miscarriage. > > That kind of statement to garner support for your position is just outrageous, isn’t it? I believe Dr. Bricker is being sarcastic, and I believe he believes he’s a sincere and well-informed observer of the American political scene. What I believe is, that like the frog which doesn’t jump out of a slowly heating pot of water, the growing Fascist-like tendencies in America are ignored by many otherwise sincere right-wingers. (Just today I noticed a news article about a teacher _calling the police_ because a student refused to pledge allegiance.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/14 "2010-02-26T21:44:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Great. > > I know you’ll want to pop over to the abortion thread in which a poster claims that if abortion is restricted, a miscarriage will be investigated to see if the mother’s “bad thoughts” might have had a role in the miscarriage. > > That kind of statement to garner support for your position is just outrageous, isn’t it? Ah, yes-the tired old “You can’t oppose this unless you oppose everything else first!” ploy. Try harder next time, 'k? ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/15 "2010-02-26T21:51:50Z")
2/3 of Americans want the option of buying into a government-run healthcare plan. The remainder want the government to keep its hands off their Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/16 "2010-02-26T21:53:51Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > Yep, this is exactly what I’m talking about. > > Aside from the bizarre contention that Democrats are “hiding,” you are not actually disputing the poll numbers, which consistently show support for the public option. > > I guess I could ask for a cite, but that would be like sticking bullshit on a toothpick, wouldn’t it? I cite the behavior of the politicians who get mail from constituents and pay for accurate polling information. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/17 "2010-02-26T22:25:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I cite the behavior of the politicians who get mail from constituents and pay for accurate polling information. 😛 IOW, you don’t have proof that Democrats are “hiding” (whatever that means), you assume that all Dems support robust healthcare reform, and you can’t substantiate your claims concerning opinion polls because the data says otherwise. But you’re nice enough to flick the latest shit from Rush et al. into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/18 "2010-02-26T22:38:36Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > 😛 > > IOW, you don’t have proof that Democrats are “hiding” (whatever that means), you assume that all Dems support robust healthcare reform, and you can’t substantiate your claims concerning opinion polls because the data says otherwise. I’m just pointing out the obvious. There is no denying that the health bill ground to a halt. Do you have a statistic to explain that? > [@sleeping](#): > > But you’re nice enough to flick the latest shit from Rush et al. into this thread. And your nice enough to fling vindictive nonsense when someone expresses an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/19 "2010-02-26T22:54:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m just pointing out the obvious. So you don’t actually have any evidence of the majority of the population being against the public option. It’s not obvious both because you’re just glibly tossing out conjecture, and because “hiding in the tall grass” is not an explicit assertion. > [@](#): > > There is no denying that the health bill ground to a halt. You mean, like the Democrats [using reconciliation to expedite passage of the healthcare bill](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2612737820100226)? > [@](#): > > Do you have a statistic to explain that? I think I’ve devoted more than enough thread space to a snide drive-by totally bereft of credibility. I will say this: if the healthcare legislation _had_ “ground to a halt,” it would have been because of the liars, bigots and corporate whores who populate the Republican party and the leadership of the so-called Tea Party. > [@](#): > > And your nice enough to fling vindictive nonsense when someone expresses an opinion. Quote from the right-wing echo chamber and you get what you deserve. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/20 "2010-02-26T22:58:51Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > …Quote from the right-wing echo chamber and you get what you deserve. From your lips to the Ears… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561.md?page=2)