# The Public Option is Not Dead, But Liars are Trying to Kill It **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561 "2010-02-26T19:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/21 "2010-02-26T22:58:52Z")
Back tomorrow. In the meantime, have at it, guys and gals. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/22 "2010-02-26T23:29:53Z")
> [@sleeping](#): > > So you don’t actually have any evidence of the majority of the population being against the public option. > > It’s not obvious both because you’re just glibly tossing out conjecture, and because “hiding in the tall grass” is not an explicit assertion. > You mean, like the Democrats [using reconciliation to expedite passage of the healthcare bill](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2612737820100226)? I’m not tossing out conjecture that the bill ground to a halt for 2 months. It’s a simple observation. You just have problems coming to terms with it. The rest of your response is just electronic spittle. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/23 "2010-02-26T23:40:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The rest of your response is just electronic spittle. This is simply sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “lalaallala I can’t hear you and your poopy factual argument!” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/24 "2010-02-26T23:46:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This is simply sticking your fingers in your ears and saying “lalaallala I can’t hear you and your poopy factual argument!” I’m not the one flinging adjectives. As for factual argument, if there was public support for the bill it wouldn’t have ground to a halt. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/25 "2010-02-27T00:29:49Z")
Please call them back and ask again how they want to pay for it. Will they accept higher personal taxes to cover the bill? Will they pay the full cost? Will they accept that once they are on the public option, they can not use the same doctor for cash services (Medicare rule)? It is easy to ask if someone wants free health coverage. It is another to ask what increase in personal taxes someone is willing to accept to get free health coverage. Or, alternatively, ask them what other government programs they are willing to cancel to pay for this health coverage. I want a government option of a new balcony with a wood fired pizza oven, and will happily state that if you call me tonight. Once you start quoting prices, options, the type of wood, and who will do the installation…I might change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/26 "2010-02-27T00:56:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Ah, yes-the tired old “You can’t oppose this unless you oppose everything else first!” ploy. > Try harder next time, 'k? That ain’t it. No, the truth is that you don’t care much at all if the lies happen on your side. You don’t care about the lying at all. Sure, when your opponents do it, it makes a convenient target for your “moral” outrage. But in point of fact, lies don’t bother you a bit when they help your side. Sure, oppose this to your hearts’ content. I certainly oppose the lies being told in opposition to UHC, and I’ve said that many times here, attacking my own side for their craptastic tactics. But that courtesy is seldom returned, and almost never by you. No, you believe that since your side is actually correct on its positions, lies told in support of them are just not that objectionable. So stop bleating about how horrified you are about the lying. No one with any critical thinking ability believes it. I grant that there may be some utterly simplistic folks who feel some genuine outrage at the lying and simply never notice it from their side, but anyone with a lick of sense knows what’s really going on – a near-total tolerance for the lie that supports a dogmatic pillar of the Left, and faux “outrage” when the Right uses the tactic. Or keep bleating. Maybe someone new will buy it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/27 "2010-02-27T15:25:08Z")
Yes, **Bricker** , being a republican, the party “clear and present danger”, I’m sure lies and untruths are perfectly acceptable to you. However most other people find lies intended to ensure the health economic ruin of Americans for the benefit of big insure to be extra distasteful. That pesky common sense of decency people have bugging you again? God forbid someone with an expensive condition receive medical coverage and not be dropped. Then again you rooted for the Bush/Cheney even after t6hey were shown to be inhuman torturing monsters. In short the right argues for things, demonstrated by the success of UHC in other countries, that are inherently harmful for the health and economic well being of America. When the someone lies to screw their country for their own personal gain, what do you call that? Some folks would call it treason. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/28 "2010-02-27T15:42:00Z")
Strange that people are claiming that the politicians are being pressured to kill the bill by the voice of the people. Most polling has shown that the people want our horrible system to change. The real force has come from insurance companies and their peons like Fox News. They have only sicced 1500 lobbyists on the pols. They have put 1.5 million dollars a day into getting their way. Like Dylan wrote, Money doesn’t talk, it swears". I wish the American people were more resistant to constant loud fake news like Fox. I wish the politicians were able to resist the lobbying pressure. It takes guts and conviction. Senators and congressmen show a lack of that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/29 "2010-02-27T15:56:09Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Yes, **Bricker** , being a republican, the party “clear and present danger”, I’m sure lies and untruths are perfectly acceptable to you. However most other people find lies intended to ensure the health economic ruin of Americans for the benefit of big insure to be extra distasteful. That pesky common sense of decency people have bugging you again? > > God forbid someone with an expensive condition receive medical coverage and not be dropped. > > Then again you rooted for the Bush/Cheney even after t6hey were shown to be inhuman torturing monsters. > > In short the right argues for things, demonstrated by the success of UHC in other countries, that are inherently harmful for the health and economic well being of America. When the someone lies to screw their country for their own personal gain, what do you call that? Some folks would call it treason. You evidently can read. But the understanding, it eludes you. I can cite numerous posts in the past where I’ve condemned Republican lies. Where are yours condeming Democratic lies? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/30 "2010-02-27T16:08:46Z")
List a few and we’ll see. Are you under the impression that everyone else must be as bad as your guys? And you talk of “understanding”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/31 "2010-02-27T16:32:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You evidently can read. But the understanding, it eludes you. > > I can cite numerous posts in the past where I’ve condemned Republican lies. > > Where are yours condeming Democratic lies? What the hell has that to do with _this_ topic? Do you have anything to say directly concerning the actual point of this thread, or are you going to continue with this juvenile “You do it _tooo!_” tactic? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/32 "2010-02-27T16:34:35Z")
**Elvish** , m’lad, you don’t understand. Liberal hypocrisy is the only issue worth discussing. Health care reform, economic justice, the relentless advance of Cognitive Dissonance…these are as nothing compared to the fundamental, crucial issue of liberal hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/33 "2010-02-27T16:36:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Great. > > I know you’ll want to pop over to the abortion thread in which a poster claims that if abortion is restricted, a miscarriage will be investigated to see if the mother’s “bad thoughts” might have had a role in the miscarriage. > > That kind of statement to garner support for your position is just outrageous, isn’t it? An SDMB poster?! I was wrong, that _is_ worse than a national politician and an entire news network. Damn SDMB, it ruins it for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/34 "2010-02-27T16:39:03Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Please call them back and ask again how they want to pay for it. Will they accept higher personal taxes to cover the bill? Will they pay the full cost? Will they accept that once they are on the public option, they can not use the same doctor for cash services (Medicare rule)? > > It is easy to ask if someone wants free health coverage. It is another to ask what increase in personal taxes someone is willing to accept to get free health coverage. Or, alternatively, ask them what other government programs they are willing to cancel to pay for this health coverage. Funny, I don’t remember being asked how I wanted to pay for the Iraq war the Republicans lied us into. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/35 "2010-02-27T17:00:15Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > That’s what I hate. Lie about a bill to the public, then quote poll numbers to support your opposition. “Would you support a health-care bill that kills kittens”? Or set up death panels and pull Granny’s life support? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/36 "2010-02-27T17:12:20Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Or set up death panels and pull Granny’s life support? But if you are going to go ahead and pull Granny’s life support, why would you even _need_ a death panel? This is yet another example of Democrats wasting money on useless programs. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/37 "2010-02-27T17:33:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What the hell has that to do with _this_ topic? Do you have anything to say directly concerning the actual point of this thread, or are you going to continue with this juvenile “You do it _tooo!_” tactic? That’s all he’s got. Bricker is well aware that his opinions are founded on blind ideology, not rational thinking. All he can do is try to find something, no matter how unrelated, to hold up and deflect attention from his morally bankrupt stance. At least that’s my take on it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/38 "2010-02-27T17:46:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > But if you are going to go ahead and pull Granny’s life support, why would you even _need_ a death panel? > This is yet another example of Democrats wasting money on useless programs. True, we must be mindful of cost. Waste not, want not 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/39 "2010-02-27T17:48:46Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Funny, I don’t remember being asked how I wanted to pay for the Iraq war the Republicans lied us into. Me neither, and I was a Republican against the first Gulf War as well. Too bad the Democrats were such a combination of idiots (reading the same intel) and wimps (unwilling to fight against it) as to vote for the war (before they started wanting to vote against it). I would welcome surveys that ask for every government action how would people like to pay for it. Ask if they support Afghanistan, then ask them how to pay for it. Ask them if they want to expand Medicare, then ask them how to pay for it. American’s never think about how to pay for something. 20% credit card rates and variable balloon payment interest only sub prime mortgages are just part of the game. Back to the OP - Everyone wants “free” healthcare, nobody is willing to be specific on how to pay for it. The Democrats are exempting the golden health plans of the unions from taxing - can’t do that, so siree Barack! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561/40 "2010-02-27T17:59:53Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Back to the OP - Everyone wants “free” healthcare, nobody is willing to be specific on how to pay for it. The Democrats are exempting the golden health plans of the unions from taxing - can’t do that, so siree Barack! The current Senate and House plans are specific on how to pay for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-public-option-is-not-dead-but-liars-are-trying-to-kill-it/530561.md?page=3)