# The punks who assaulted my daughter (long) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 26, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262 "2008-06-26T01:14:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![chuks54](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@chuks54](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chuks54)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/261 "2008-07-08T17:39:46Z")
I also just wanted to offer up my support. You have handled this well. My oldest is starting Kindergarten in the fall and you’ve given me a good lesson to pass on, “No Go Tell” is something that she’ll be completely familiar with by fall. I wish the best for you and Mudgirl and I hope that this is resolved as easily as possible for your family without further damage. I’ll continue to keep you and yours in my thoughts and prayers. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/262 "2008-07-08T18:52:59Z")
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63] You really don’t need a crystal ball to predict problems for this child in life, do you? I wonder what planet the mother is from. [/QUOTE] I’m thinking it’s possible that this mother might be molesting this boy-or else someone else in the family is, and she’s in complete denial. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/263 "2008-07-08T20:45:12Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] and possibly for a civil case if it looks like it will go to that. Impossible to say right now. [/QUOTE] A civil case? You mean there’s a nonzero chance these little scumbags will escape the filing of criminal (juvenile) charges? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/264 "2008-07-08T20:58:24Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] A civil case? You mean there’s a nonzero chance these little scumbags will escape the filing of criminal (juvenile) charges? [/QUOTE] I don’t really know anything about this particular case yet. I _do_ know that Punk Number One’s family has been investigated by CPS _numerous_ times, and have not had their children removed. I _do_ know that this punk is _still_ stepping onto our property even when he’s been “talked to” by the detectives. I _do_ know that there have been numerous other cases where justice _was not_ served by the public defenders and the system in general. All I’m saying is if _this_ turns out to be one of those cases, we’re prepared to take it to civil court, to protect _our_ little girl as well as future victims. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/265 "2008-07-08T20:58:33Z")
I’m with Guin on this one. While children are innately sexual, this is over and beyond the bounds of normal behavior, and it’s a big red flag that someone has been using him for sexual gratification. If I were the teacher, I’d already have called CFS on him. **norinew** , I’ll join the ever growing chorus. You’re doing a fantastic job. While this should never happen to anyone or anyone’s child, you should be cited as a case study for how to handle this in a healthy, responsible manner. **Mudgirl** , too, should be praised to the heavens for being so self-possessed and clear-headed. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/266 "2008-07-08T21:05:37Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Mudgirl, too, should be praised to the heavens for being so self-possessed and clear-headed. While I _do_ discipline my kids when they need it ( **mudgirl** can still tell you about the one time she got a spanking, even though it was four years ago), I strongly believe in encouraging _positive_ behavior with praise. So, yes, I’ve praised her again and again for handling this situation just the way she was supposed to. When she told her whole story of what happened, it turned out that the point at which she said “Wait. Time out.” was the first time in the encounter when she felt “safe”. She said it was like “looking before you cross the street; you check to see if it’s safe first”, and that’s when she broke away from the encounter and found me to report it. I’ve also used this as a “springboard” if you will, for further discussion on handling assaults, and just handling situations that make you feel uncomfortable. She felt uncomfortable considerably _before_ she called a halt to the situation because it seems she was waiting to see if she was being unreasonable, since these were “older” kids and she assumed they knew something she didn’t. I fully understand her waiting until she did, and have reassured her time and again that it even though she _did_ have some genital contact with them, _she_ did nothing wrong. I feel good about all the praise I’m getting for my mothering skills, but honestly, it’s pretty easy to be a good mother when you’ve got a good kid! ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/267 "2008-07-08T21:13:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] A civil case? You mean there’s a nonzero chance these little scumbags will escape the filing of criminal (juvenile) charges? [/QUOTE] Remember, too - there’s a world of difference between having charges filed, and having the defendants convicted. If charges are filed but the trial results in an acquittal, per the double jeopardy rules, the punks cannot be held _criminally_ liable for their actions. And while I have no reason to doubt **norinew** or **mudgirl** ’s version of events - per what we have been told, the situation is one girl’s unwitnessed testimony against that of two older boys. It’s not impossible for me to believe that a jury might decide, for whatever reason, that **mudgirl** fabricated the story. Especially if the jurors suffer from CSI disease - and they are stuck only with two (or three) conflicting verbal accounts of an event that left no physical evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/268 "2008-07-08T21:29:00Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] I feel good about all the praise I’m getting for my mothering skills, but honestly, it’s pretty easy to be a good mother when you’ve got a good kid! [/QUOTE] You know, based on the things I have read from you, I think we might have more than a little in common. The funny thing is, I have said this exact statement so many times that you would not believe. My kids are amazing. I said that exact comment to a friend who put it in perspective for me – my kids are as awesome as they are because I am as great of a mom as I am 😃 I’m not perfect, but I do my best, and apparently it’s pretty good. Perhaps you need to get that perspective, too? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/269 "2008-07-08T21:31:49Z")
[QUOTE=norinew] I feel good about all the praise I’m getting for my mothering skills, but honestly, it’s pretty easy to be a good mother when you’ve got a good kid! [/QUOTE] Chicken and egg, **norinew**. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/270 "2008-07-08T21:40:55Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] You know, based on the things I have read from you, I think we might have more than a little in common. The funny thing is, I have said this exact statement so many times that you would not believe. My kids are amazing. I said that exact comment to a friend who put it in perspective for me – my kids are as awesome as they are because I am as great of a mom as I am 😃 I’m not perfect, but I do my best, and apparently it’s pretty good. Perhaps you need to get that perspective, too? 😉 [/QUOTE] Some people are naturals at it, too. Maybe it comes from being well-parented yourselves. Good kids don’t just “happen,” as the neighbor boys from across the street prove. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/271 "2008-07-08T21:51:49Z")
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63] Some people are naturals at it, too. Maybe it comes from being well-parented yourselves. Good kids don’t just “happen,” as the neighbor boys from across the street prove. [/QUOTE] Oh, Dear Og, honey, it does not come from my parents. My mother’s idea of parenting me involved dropping me off at a known child molester’s house while she went out with her boyfriend and my father (her husband) was at work. I think in many cases, the people who had the worst parents become the best out of a need to make sure no one gets as screwed up as they are (at least in our own minds). ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/272 "2008-07-08T21:57:56Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] Oh, Dear Og, honey, it does not come from my parents. My mother’s idea of parenting me involved dropping me off at a known child molester’s house while she went out with her boyfriend and my father (her husband) was at work. I think in many cases, the people who had the worst parents become the best out of a need to make sure no one gets as screwed up as they are (at least in our own minds). [/QUOTE] Forgot to add the “YMMV” :smack: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/273 "2008-07-08T22:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] Oh, Dear Og, honey, it does not come from my parents. My mother’s idea of parenting me involved dropping me off at a known child molester’s house while she went out with her boyfriend and my father (her husband) was at work. I think in many cases, the people who had the worst parents become the best out of a need to make sure no one gets as screwed up as they are (at least in our own minds). [/QUOTE] Are you me?? You may have gathered from previous posts, I have similar experiences from my childhood. Yes, one factor in the way I raise my kids is that I _don’t_ want to be the kind of mother my mother was! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/274 "2008-07-09T02:22:44Z")
Has JD the Elder been on your property again? ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/275 "2008-07-09T12:05:39Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Has JD the Elder been on your property again? [/QUOTE] He’s only been on the property twice that I’ve seen. I was thinking as I wrote that it was awkwardly worded and sounded like he’s continued to come onto our property, but so far as I know, it’s only been the two times. I need to check later today to make sure he’s been officially notified of the restraining order (we were advised not to say anything to them about it). However, given his past irreverence for the law, I’m not optimistic that this will keep him away. It is, however, one more weapon in our arsenal against him! Wish us luck! ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Nya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@Fish\_Nya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Nya)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/276 "2008-07-09T12:13:12Z")
One thing that I always remember is all of the fire safety commercials and things like that where they say that you have to practice a route out of the house and everything. Just like that is why we always had so many fire drills- when you are panicking it is easier to follow the plan than to come up with something right on the spot. Reading this whole thing made me realize that all again. Not only did **Mudgirl** know what to do, but now I’ve got an example. I mean, this is a thing I’ve never seriously thought about. Truthfully, I’ve never had to, as I’m hardly more than a kid myself. I only knew the “get away and go tell someone” side and never thought about what the adult would have to do. This felt to me as almost a textbook example of “what to do”. **NorineW** , I think what you’ve done is amazing. I know that you’ve heard pages of this, but I don’t think it can be said enough. Your whole family is wonderful. I can say truthfully that I don’t know how I would ever react in a similar situation, but your reaction and handling will be what I think of in the future. I wish you and your family well, and I hope everything will go as smoothly as possible in the future. It is also nice to see that, no matter how awful things are, SDMB is there with both help and a friendly hand. This is why I started reading and why I didn’t mind paying. This communities is one of my favorites thanks to the people like those in this thread. Y’all rock. ---
**Author:** ![fessie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/277 "2008-07-09T12:18:57Z")
yeah And I’ll bet I’m not the only Doper parent who had a serious chat with a small child. We’ve discussed it before, but it needs to be reinforced. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/278 "2008-07-09T12:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I’m thinking it’s possible that this mother might be molesting this boy-or else someone else in the family is, and she’s in complete denial. [/QUOTE] I agree. I can’t believe the teacher didn’t inform whatever child protective agency exists in norinew’s state. (If in fact she didn’t, she may have.) Teachers are mandatory reporters; if they see a red flag they are required by law to report it, and that note is a giant red flag. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/279 "2008-07-09T14:46:42Z")
I suspected that the punks had been served with notice of the restraining orders, because: I left the house at about 8:55 this morning to take **mudgirl** to day camp. When I came back at about 9:05, the punk across the street was sitting on his porch, with his father. They were both staring daggers at me. I didn’t respond or react in any way. I noted their attitude, looked at them blandly for a second, and moved along with what I was doing. I could almost _feel_ the father wanting to confront me and then not quite daring (have I mentioned I’m pretty sure he’s physically abusive to his family? It would follow that he’s a coward, too). So I _suspected_ the restraining order had been served. I got into the house and then called the court house. Yep. The punks now have notice to _stay away_ from my daughter, even if she’s not on my property. Now, lest you worry this means I’m going to let my guard down, well, don’t. I’ll still be keeping an extra-close eye on things (again walking that fine line between watching closely enough and watching _so_ closely I induce paranoia in the poor kid). **Fish Nya** , yes, I’ve heard pages of this positive reinforcement, as well as numerous emails, PMs, and other forms of support. It _all_ helps! Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262/280 "2008-07-09T15:21:26Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley] I agree. I can’t believe the teacher didn’t inform whatever child protective agency exists in norinew’s state. (If in fact she didn’t, she may have.) Teachers are mandatory reporters; if they see a red flag they are required by law to report it, and that note is a giant red flag. [/QUOTE] The note was given to **maggenpye** ’s daughter, not **norinew** ’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-long/454262.md?page=15)