# The Punks Who Assaulted My Daughter, Part 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379 "2008-11-12T17:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/21 "2008-11-12T20:11:40Z")
> [@lorene](#): > > But here’s a kid, barely 11, who does something wrong. Very wrong. Whether he knows it or not, whether he was coerced by his older friend (Punk #1) or not, we all agree that it was wrong. Yet his own mother couldn’t be arsed to get the proper help for him (legal and psychological) and would in fact rather go to jail than take any action. What kind of a message does that send to him? What does that mean about any other messages she may or may not have sent him? > > The whole situation seems very sad. I wish you strength. I don’t see anything wrong with that statement. It’s sad for _everyone_ involved that the kid’s mother doesn’t care any more about the kid than that. Hugs, \*\*norinew \*\*and **mudgirl**! ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/22 "2008-11-12T20:12:38Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > Best of luck to you and **mudgirl** , **norinew**. Let us know what happens. Thank you. This post happened during my response post. You might all think that after awhile, the good wishes, good thoughts and hugs mean nothing or little, but nothing could be further from the truth. When I joined the SDMB years ago, I had very little concept of the _community_ that is here. My gratitude to you all is deeper than words can express. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/23 "2008-11-12T20:22:12Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > Actually, if anyone disagrees with you on this, they’ll have to disagree with me, too. Ever since I found out that Punk 2 was barely 11 when the assault occurred, and knowing the history of Punk 1 (not good; he’s had police involvement since he was 5YO, and in the dictionary under “Dysfunctional Family”, there’s a pic of him, his siblings and his parents), I’ve believed Punk 2 was at least under the influence of Punk 1. In fact, had it _just_ been a kid barely 11 who did this, I wouldn’t have made _nearly_ as big of an issue of it as I did. You still did the right thing. Punk 2 needs punishment AND help. Not just one or the other. Hopefully, the punishment will serve as a wake-up call so that he gets the help he needs, and can turn into a worthwhile citizen, despite the lack of support from his parents. Thanks for the update. Your story has connected with me on a very deep, visceral level. I hope nothing like this ever happens to my kids, but if it does, I hope I can handle it with even half the maturity, wisdom, and class that you have. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/24 "2008-11-12T20:22:14Z")
I think Punk #2’s mother is taking action. I think she is perfectly willing to drag her feet and take the lumps that go with that to put off having her son have to face the music for his deeds. Very short sighted and will probably have the opposite effect if she pisses the judge off too much. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/25 "2008-11-12T20:23:53Z")
Hugs and prayers for you and **mudgirl**. Remember this: You are breaking a cycle of abuse, and that is an awesome thing. ---
**Author:** ![gumpy3885](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d9b06d/32.png) [@gumpy3885](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gumpy3885)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/26 "2008-11-12T20:25:06Z")
May I make one suggestion to your letter? I’ve been keeping up with the other thread and realize that you have past issues that are influencing your reaction and that you are struggling to balance your reaction against those feelings that have re-surfaced. But I would be careful with this sentence: "I have struggled with the way this has called back issues of mine from my childhood. " If I were the other kids’ attorney, I potentially would use this sentence to demonstrate that your reaction and desire for punishment is being colored by your experiences. The rest of the letter is very well-written and I think presents your feelings well. This is NOT to diminish your feelings but just a desire to be helpfu. ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/27 "2008-11-12T20:35:14Z")
Hi. We’re strangers to each other, and I clicked on this thread with some trepidation due to the title, not sure that I would be up to reading about what it surely must contain. After reading through this thread and the previous one, there’s a lot I would like to say that has already been said, and perhaps more eloquently, passionately, and reasonably than I could have said myself. So I’ll just say this: Both you and your daughter are an inspiration. Thank you. Oh, and a shout out from Ellicott City – woop woop! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/28 "2008-11-12T21:22:48Z")
> [@gumpy3885](#): > > May I make one suggestion to your letter? I’ve been keeping up with the other thread and realize that you have past issues that are influencing your reaction and that you are struggling to balance your reaction against those feelings that have re-surfaced. > > But I would be careful with this sentence: > > "I have struggled with the way this has called back issues of mine from my childhood. " > > If I were the other kids’ attorney, I potentially would use this sentence to demonstrate that your reaction and desire for punishment is being colored by your experiences. The rest of the letter is very well-written and I think presents your feelings well. This is NOT to diminish your feelings but just a desire to be helpfu. I thought the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/29 "2008-11-12T21:26:36Z")
> [@gumpy3885](#): > > May I make one suggestion to your letter? I’ve been keeping up with the other thread and realize that you have past issues that are influencing your reaction and that you are struggling to balance your reaction against those feelings that have re-surfaced. > > But I would be careful with this sentence: > > "I have struggled with the way this has called back issues of mine from my childhood. " > > If I were the other kids’ attorney, I potentially would use this sentence to demonstrate that your reaction and desire for punishment is being colored by your experiences. The rest of the letter is very well-written and I think presents your feelings well. This is NOT to diminish your feelings but just a desire to be helpfu. Thank you for this input. I actually wondered about that, as I was adding it. I will contemplate it further before finalizing. But really, this is a “victim impact statement”, and the ADA has made it clear that the whole family are victims. Therefore, the impact, even in retrospect, may deserve some consideration, in that it _has_ had an impact on _my_ dealings with the situation. I’m sure that, whatever I settle on, it won’t be “perfect”. The best I can hope for is that it will be “pretty good”. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/30 "2008-11-12T22:08:03Z")
You are all still in my thoughts and prayers. Reinforce the idea that it isn’t her fault they felt they had they right to force themselves on her. Help her keep ahold of the idea that no one has the right to force her, but that she isn’t weak or wrong if she does get forced. (And that everyone can find themselves forced to do something they don’t want to do, anyone can, big things or little things.) Also, try to help her to see, that even though bad things can happen to a person, they don’t have to let the shadow of the Bad Things stay in their life. Help her to grow and reach for the Sun and Stars. She doesn’t have to stay in the shadow of this event, and one day I pray, she’ll find herself outside the shadow, and be able to assert herself and be happy in her life. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/31 "2008-11-12T22:14:38Z")
You continue to be in our prayers as well: we hope all goes well tomorrow and this kid learns that there are consequences to actions. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/32 "2008-11-12T22:16:18Z")
**Zabali Clawbane** and **Juliana** , thank you for the kind words and support! ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/33 "2008-11-12T22:24:20Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > Thank you for this input. I actually wondered about that, as I was adding it. I will contemplate it further before finalizing. But really, this is a “victim impact statement”, and the ADA has made it clear that the whole family are victims. Therefore, the impact, even in retrospect, may deserve some consideration, in that it _has_ had an impact on _my_ dealings with the situation. > > I’m sure that, whatever I settle on, it won’t be “perfect”. The best I can hope for is that it will be “pretty good”. I think if you don’t start out with your impact, and start out with hers, it becomes more focused on her and yours just in extension of that. So it shows that your focus is in the right place - but there’s been a huge layering effect. Does that make sense? I admire what you’ve done. When I was molested as a child, I was told to just forget about it. I was almost 33 before I finally came to terms with it - and 38 (as in, now) before some of the sexual hang ups I had ever got resolved (thanks to the heroic Dewey D). ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/34 "2008-11-12T22:47:22Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > Thank you for this input. I actually wondered about that, as I was adding it. I will contemplate it further before finalizing. But really, this is a “victim impact statement”, and the ADA has made it clear that the whole family are victims. Therefore, the impact, even in retrospect, may deserve some consideration, in that it _has_ had an impact on _my_ dealings with the situation. > > I’m sure that, whatever I settle on, it won’t be “perfect”. The best I can hope for is that it will be “pretty good”. I’m glad to hear you’re moving toward some closure on this and hope **mudgirl** will have the same. I’ll echo what a lot of others have said, namely that she needs to understand that it isn’t her fault. Accepting that will take some time, but kids are resilient. I’d add (? may have missed it upthread) that the other lesson would be in the wisdom of handling situations like this via the proper channels. I.e. yes it’s tempting to go buy a shotgun but really, letting the system handle it is much better all around. Bad things do happen but there is, we hope, justice available. IMO the best you can do is follow the lawyer’s advice. E.g. I looked back at the old thread where you wrote in the OP: _I almost put this in the pit. I don’t know exactly what changed my mind, but right now, I’m under the influence of a half mg of Xanax and a glass of wine._ Along the lines of whether it’s a good idea to mention your personal childhood trauma, whatever goes into the statement should be approved by the lawyer. I’ve probably seen too many courtroom dramas but if you mention a prescription in your statement, maybe they’d try to attack your state of mind when it happened, the credibility of your memory, etc. If the lawyer says it’s okay, then IMO you accept that and hope for the best. It’s tragic that the punks don’t know any better and it’s easy to imagine why that is. Probably the most important influence in our lives is something not of our choosing—the parents we were born to. I think some posters are losing sight of that…it’s natural to want to punish offenders, but these are half-formed human beings at best. If they get lost in the system and end up in bad foster home situations, they aren’t likely to get any better. Imagine what they could do as adults with candy, a car, and some duct tape. \*\*JSexton \*\*posted: _You still did the right thing. Punk 2 needs punishment AND help. Not just one or the other. Hopefully, the punishment will serve as a wake-up call so that he gets the help he needs, and can turn into a worthwhile citizen, despite the lack of support from his parents._ This implies that they knew what they were doing was wrong, and HOW wrong. I’m not sure there has been enough parental influence to instill that in the punks. Their very admission seems really naive and guileless—“Yeah, we did that. So what?” You house train a dog: they don’t know not to crap in the house unless you catch them, stick their nose in what they did, love on them when they get it right, etc. Otherwise, “Yeah, I crapped in the house. So what?” The older one has been in trouble since age 5 and after 8 years of parents allowing him to do as he pleased, establishing guidelines and unbreaking old habits could be tough. At this point, are the kids wise enough to recognize that they needed a wake-up call? The parents are the ones who need it but won’t take them to task; mom’s willing to sit in jail, it seems. WTF? But your first job is taking care of your own, **norinew**. Those parents have had opportunities, warnings, etc. and whatever happens to the kids as a result is on them. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/35 "2008-11-12T22:48:24Z")
> [@melodyharmonius](#): > > I think if you don’t start out with your impact, and start out with hers, it becomes more focused on her and yours just in extension of that. So it shows that your focus is in the right place - but there’s been a huge layering effect. Does that make sense? > > I admire what you’ve done. When I was molested as a child, I was told to just forget about it. I was almost 33 before I finally came to terms with it - and 38 (as in, now) before some of the sexual hang ups I had ever got resolved (thanks to the heroic Dewey D). OK. I do understand that. I believe I _will_ mention my background as a victim, but probably not so early in the statement. I wasn’t told to “forget” about my assault, but, as the man that was abusing me was living with my parents at the time, I was told (by my mother) to “try to avoid him”, but when I needed a ride someplace, etc., he would volunteer, and she would let him drive me. ☹ 😕 Still, you are right. Although the impact this has had on me is partially about _my_ history, it’s mostly about \*\*mudgirl[/b[, so I will keep at least the first paragraph or two focused on her! ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/36 "2008-11-13T00:32:22Z")
You are both in my thoughts and will be tomorrow. Please let us know how things turn out. How could Punk 2’s mother (if you want to call her that) be so stupid? Does she really think she can out-stubborn a judge?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/37 "2008-11-13T00:50:19Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > You are both in my thoughts and will be tomorrow. Please let us know how things turn out. > > How could Punk 2’s mother (if you want to call her that) be so stupid? Does she really think she can out-stubborn a judge?😕 I wonder if she isn’t hoping to make the statute of limitations run out if she drags her feet enough? I might mention it to the prosecutor. Stupid bitch needs to get that kid a lawyer, so the lawyer can see to it he gets the counseling he so desperately needs. That will end up costing her less than the fines and missed work/lost job due to jail stays she is currently incurring. ---
**Author:** ![Headrush042](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Headrush042](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Headrush042)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/38 "2008-11-13T01:10:12Z")
I can’t help but consider the possibility that P2’s mom may be going through some sort of breakdown / acute depression over this. I can’t imagine why anyone would behave in that manner otherwise. I’m not trying to paint P2 as a victim or anything, but I think that lady may be in need of some real help, as well (well, moreso now than before). Best wishes tomorrow, **norinew**. It’s taken some real strength to get where you are right now so gracefully. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/39 "2008-11-13T01:27:42Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I’m glad to hear you’re moving toward some closure on this and hope **mudgirl** will have the same. I’ll echo what a lot of others have said, namely that she needs to understand that it isn’t her fault. Accepting that will take some time, but kids are resilient. > > I’d add (? may have missed it upthread) that the other lesson would be in the wisdom of handling situations like this via the proper channels. I.e. yes it’s tempting to go buy a shotgun but really, letting the system handle it is much better all around. Bad things do happen but there is, we hope, justice available. > > IMO the best you can do is follow the lawyer’s advice. E.g. I looked back at the old thread where you wrote in the OP: > > _I almost put this in the pit. I don’t know exactly what changed my mind, but right now, I’m under the influence of a half mg of Xanax and a glass of wine._ > > Along the lines of whether it’s a good idea to mention your personal childhood trauma, whatever goes into the statement should be approved by the lawyer. I’ve probably seen too many courtroom dramas but if you mention a prescription in your statement, maybe they’d try to attack your state of mind when it happened, the credibility of your memory, etc. If the lawyer says it’s okay, then IMO you accept that and hope for the best. > > It’s tragic that the punks don’t know any better and it’s easy to imagine why that is. Probably the most important influence in our lives is something not of our choosing—the parents we were born to. I think some posters are losing sight of that…it’s natural to want to punish offenders, but these are half-formed human beings at best. If they get lost in the system and end up in bad foster home situations, they aren’t likely to get any better. Imagine what they could do as adults with candy, a car, and some duct tape. > > \*\*JSexton \*\*posted: > _You still did the right thing. Punk 2 needs punishment AND help. Not just one or the other. Hopefully, the punishment will serve as a wake-up call so that he gets the help he needs, and can turn into a worthwhile citizen, despite the lack of support from his parents._ > > This implies that they knew what they were doing was wrong, and HOW wrong. I’m not sure there has been enough parental influence to instill that in the punks. Their very admission seems really naive and guileless—“Yeah, we did that. So what?” You house train a dog: they don’t know not to crap in the house unless you catch them, stick their nose in what they did, love on them when they get it right, etc. Otherwise, “Yeah, I crapped in the house. So what?” > > The older one has been in trouble since age 5 and after 8 years of parents allowing him to do as he pleased, establishing guidelines and unbreaking old habits could be tough. At this point, are the kids wise enough to recognize that they needed a wake-up call? The parents are the ones who need it but won’t take them to task; mom’s willing to sit in jail, it seems. WTF? > > But your first job is taking care of your own, **norinew**. Those parents have had opportunities, warnings, etc. and whatever happens to the kids as a result is on them. No mention of Xanax _or_ wine appears anywhere in any of my statements. But at any rate, the boys’ defenders cannot say I didn’t know what I was talking about due to the influence of drugs/alcohol, because they both admitted guilt right off the bat. > [@headrush042](#): > > I can’t help but consider the possibility that P2’s mom may be going through some sort of breakdown / acute depression over this. I can’t imagine why anyone would behave in that manner otherwise. I’m not trying to paint P2 as a victim or anything, but I think that lady may be in need of some real help, as well (well, moreso now than before). I simply do not know. The ADA does not know. The Public Defender’s Office does not know. Your theory makes as much sense as anything we’ve been able to come up wiht. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/40 "2008-11-13T02:06:10Z")
I too would leave your victimization out of the statement. No concrete reason, just a feeling. Don’t give them anything to muddy the waters with. Sorry, Norine… ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379.md?page=3)