# The Punks Who Assaulted My Daughter, Part 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 12, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379 "2008-11-12T17:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/61 "2008-11-13T16:49:23Z")
Added prayers also for you & mudgirl. Not sure what to say about the mention of your own trauma in the statement. I see both sides there. But a big WTF?!? to your mother’s reaction. It’s a good thing, actually, that mudgirl feels free to bring it up & talk about it. I’ve had friends who’ve bottled such things up & repressed them, only to have the memories rear up & throw them into total havoc. She’s dealing with it openly & that’s a good things. Kudos to you for raising her to feel loved & supported & trusting! As a C’tian, I should feel some compassion for the punks, and I kinda do for #2- all I can muster here is a prayer for justice upon their heads, resulting in their redemption. But most of all, my prayer for strength & love, happiness & healing for mudgirl, norinew, & your whole family. You all obviously have a head start on that. ---
**Author:** ![miamouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@miamouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miamouse)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/62 "2008-11-13T16:52:08Z")
Strange that Monday I was wondering how you all were doing and then after being away for a few days, there’s an update. Wishing your family patience and peace and that you keep being able to lean on each other the way you are now. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/63 "2008-11-13T17:24:20Z")
The ADA took me and my hubby into a corner to go over the paperwork associated with the case. She had the reports and recommendations from the dept. of Social Services, as well as the psychologist who did his psycho-sexual evaluation. We actually had to spend quite a bit of time sitting in a hallway, directly across from Punk and his parents, who, btw, were all dressed in jeans and T-shirts; Mom’s jeans even had a rip in them. Nice. Once in the courtroom, the judge went over what Punk’s requirements are: Weekly counseling with a therapist specializing is sex abusers; no internet access; no unsupervised contact with children under the age of 10; must be supervised at all times by a responsible adult (the ADA told me there’s nothing she can do about the fact that his parents are really _not_ “responsible adults”); no unexcused absences from school; no contact with Punk 2; not allowed within 300 yards of our house; the entire family will be involved with Family Preservation (a branch of Social Services). All of this is for a 1 year period, _at least_. At the end of that period, his parents can petition the court to stop or reduce this intervention. Punk’s attorney said that Punk doesn’t want counseling because he’s “tired of talking about it, and just wants to put it behind him and move on”. The judge basically said “Tough Shit”, but he said it in Latin or something to make it legally relevant. 😉 In fact, the judge said that the fact he doesn’t _want_ counseling is the number one thing that indicates he _needs_ counseling. I gave my statement. I cried but I got through it. After I was done my statement, the judge asked Punk’s family if they had anything to say. Now, knowing these people as I do, I did not expect remorse, class or anything like that from them. But Punk’s father went into how he doesn’t understand how I can fear for the safety of my children, when, at the time of the incident, there was a registered sex offender living in our house (true; we were renting a room in the other half of the house to a man who had had to register after giving condoms to a 13YO he knew to be sexually active; during the time he lived here, none of my children felt in any danger from him, and nothing about his behavior indicated he was a danger to my children in any way. Once this stuff with Punks started going down, the man-a friend to the family, I might add-voluntarily moved out, so it wouldn’t reflect badly on me for him to be living here). So, in short, Punk’s father’s response was to make it look like _we_ were irresponsible parents. Very nice. After Punk’s father made this statement, he said “I won’t say anything else, because if I continue, I might end up in contempt” and I thought, ‘you just go right ahead and do that, asshole. I’d like to see it’. So, what can one expect from a 13YO whose own parents are looking to pass the blame? At this point, my husband and I are seriously considering a civil suit against them. Thank you again for your support, all of you. You are wonderful! ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/64 "2008-11-13T17:33:17Z")
That sounds like a pretty good outcome! Too bad PunkDad didn’t talk himself into contempt charges. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/65 "2008-11-13T18:05:32Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > At this point, my husband and I are seriously considering a civil suit against them. I’d advise you to at least explore this with a competent attorney. The real underlying issue, as I see it, is the poor child-rearing by the parents. Making them think they’re going to be punished is a means of making them pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/66 "2008-11-13T18:11:09Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > 4At this point, my husband and I are seriously considering a civil suit against them. Well, it can’t hurt, but if they don’t have the assets, the judgment will just be a piece of paper. Punk’s father sounds like a real tool. I hope they get the help they need, or if that doesn’t happen, someone at Children’s Services is on top of it enough to notify the judge in a timely manner. I wonder, how does one say “Tough Shit” in Latin? ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/67 "2008-11-13T18:14:15Z")
I’m stunned at Thing Two’s mother’s inaction. Wasn’t that the family where they actually seemed to try to keep out of your way when they bumped into you in public? Do Thing One and his family still live near you? I thought I recalled that they were next-door neighbors but that could be faulty memory. I’m so glad that at least this phase is over for you. Good on you (and the rest of the family) for providing such a supportive environment for Mudgirl, that she feels safe in talking about it with you! ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/68 "2008-11-13T18:29:08Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > I gave my statement. I cried but I got through it. Tough as fucking nails. I love you. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/69 "2008-11-13T18:31:11Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I wonder, how does one say “Tough Shit” in Latin? Juduces non tenentur exprimere causam sententiae suae ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/70 "2008-11-13T18:33:08Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > …when, at the time of the incident, there was a registered sex offender living in our house (true; we were renting a room in the other half of the house to a man who had had to register after giving condoms to a 13YO he knew to be sexually active; … Not to derail this thread… …but that’s not a reason that anyone would be required to register as a sex offender, **norinew**. ---
**Author:** ![spaceweft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@spaceweft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spaceweft)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/71 "2008-11-13T18:39:37Z")
I’m not ashamed to say that I’m teary-eyed with relief that at least this much has been done regarding Punk One. Norinew, know it or not, you’ve got plenty of admirers out here in LurkerLand. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/72 "2008-11-13T18:55:15Z")
Thanks for understanding what I was saying earlier. It sounds like Punk #1 got a very thorough sentencing, and I’m glad. It also sounds like his father is a complete tool, and one who isn’t the least bit concerned that his son is molesting young girls. I don’t have a lot of hope for Punk 1 now, either. ☹ Apple not falling far from the tree and all that… ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/73 "2008-11-13T19:16:13Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > At this point, my husband and I are seriously considering a civil suit against them. What would that accomplish? They don’t have any money, from your description. It will be costly for you, emotionally, to drag it out. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/74 "2008-11-13T19:26:36Z")
If all it does is get Punk-Dad to take this crap seriously, that might be worth it. I hope he actually does start thinking about what his son did once he gets out of court and no longer feels like he’s the one being judged. Not that I’m holding out a whole lot of faith there. Anyway, a great job to **norinew** for being brave and taking care of business. I’d like to hear more about what happened today when you’re done tending with your family - I guess from your statement that Punk family has already moved, which will make the 300-yard more effective. That’s a good start. I hope things get settled with the second punk soon. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/75 "2008-11-13T19:40:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not to derail this thread… > > …but that’s not a reason that anyone would be required to register as a sex offender, **norinew**. No derailment here. In the state of Virginia (where he first registered), you can get on the offender’s list for all kinds of stuff. What my friend told me happened (about the condoms, the under-age boy, and the boys mother freaking out) is exactly what the Maryland State Police told me. So, I dunno how that happens, but there it is. > [@ivylass](#): > > Well, it can’t hurt, but if they don’t have the assets, the judgment will just be a piece of paper. > > Punk’s father sounds like a real tool. I hope they get the help they need, or if that doesn’t happen, someone at Children’s Services is on top of it enough to notify the judge in a timely manner. No, they don’t have any money, yes, it would just be a piece of paper. However, **Jonathan Chance** pretty much nailed our thoughts on the subject. > [@Mama Zappa](#): > > I’m stunned at Thing Two’s mother’s inaction. Wasn’t that the family where they actually seemed to try to keep out of your way when they bumped into you in public? Yep, same family. Not a clue what’s up with that. > [@](#): > > Do Thing One and his family still live near you? I thought I recalled that they were next-door neighbors but that could be faulty memory. At the time of the incident (and for about six years prior to that), they lived across the street from us. Now they have moved to a neighborhood about a mile and a half away. Punk still comes around this neighborhood occasionally to visit his buddies, presumably. But the judge today said that there is no valid reason whatsoever why he would have to be in this neighborhood at all. > [@lorene](#): > > It sounds like Punk #1 got a very thorough sentencing, and I’m glad. It also sounds like his father is a complete tool, and one who isn’t the least bit concerned that his son is molesting young girls. I don’t have a lot of hope for Punk 1 now, either. Apple not falling far from the tree and all that… His father IS a complete tool. I think I talked in the first thread about how the father verbally assaulted me at the bus stop once and the school principal thought I should press charges; I wonder if it would have changed anything if I had? (Complete story available on request). Frankly, I don’t have much hope for _any_ of their five kids, but Punk 1 is definitely the worst of the lot. He was banned from the local supermarket at age 5 for repeated shoplifting attempts, thrown off the school bus at age 7 for repeated fighting, transferred from regular public school to alternative school at age 9 because the public school teachers couldn’t handle him, etc. etc. etc. > [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > What would that accomplish? They don’t have any money, from your description. It will be costly for you, emotionally, to drag it out. Well, _if_ we do it, it will be in the hopes of getting a clue for the parents, who seem pretty damned useless at this point. However, I will not do it without having a session or two with **mudgirl’s** therapist about whether it would be a good thing for her, or a bad thing. If her therapist thinks it would be bad for her, then no question, we won’t do it. > [@Spaceweft](#): > > I’m not ashamed to say that I’m teary-eyed with relief that at least this much has been done regarding Punk One. Norinew, know it or not, you’ve got plenty of admirers out here in LurkerLand. Thanks. 🙂 > [@Dung Beetle](#): > > Tough as fucking nails. I love you. If I ever decide to give up heterosexuality, I’ll give you a call. :D;) ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/76 "2008-11-13T19:52:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If all it does is get Punk-Dad to take this crap seriously, that might be worth it. I hope he actually does start thinking about what his son did once he gets out of court and no longer feels like he’s the one being judged. Not that I’m holding out a whole lot of faith there. That would be what we would be hoping for. > [@](#): > > Anyway, a great job to **norinew** for being brave and taking care of business. I’d like to hear more about what happened today when you’re done tending with your family - I guess from your statement that Punk family has already moved, which will make the 300-yard more effective. That’s a good start. I hope things get settled with the second punk soon. Don’t really know what I can tell you that hasn’t already been said. I spent a good part of yesterday in tears, writing the Impact Statement, etc. This morning, I put on a Happy Face for the benefit of **mudgirl** (didn’t want to get her all upset just before heading off to school) I re-wrote the statement so that mention of my own childhood trauma was further down the list, but added that the incidents had affected my entire life, and one of the hardest things for me to deal with is the idea that the man who abused me, two of my sisters and who knows how many more girls _never faced any charges for any of it_. I hope this doesn’t bring the critics down on me again (but hey, if it does, tough shit; and I don’t speak Latin, so you get it in English), but I took a Xanax before heading out to court. I did not want to get so upset reading my statement that I couldn’t finish reading the statement. We spent a good half-hour or so sitting in the hallway, right across from Punk and his parents; I was studiously not looking at them, while my husband was busy throwing a Cosmic Death Glare their way. After that, the ADA came and got us. There was no quiet room to take us into, so she led us into a quiet corner and went over everything with us. We went into the courtroom, the judge reviewed the reports and recommendations of the psychologist and CPS. He asked the ADA if the recommendations were suitable as far as the DA’s office was concerned, and she said yes. He (the judge) asked Punk’s attorney if he had any objections to the conditions put down, and that’s when Punk’s attorney went into his song and dance about how Punk doesn’t want counseling because he’s tired of talking about it. . . The judge also pointed out that, while Punk admits to doing _something_, apparently, he’s told at least three different versions of what happened. Judge said “Rehabilitation starts with confession; if you’re unsure what you’ve done wrong, how are you going to learn to do right?” I was feeling better by the time we left the building. The rest of my day so far has been business as usual; a trip to the bank, grocery shopping, putting away groceries, feeding the guinea pig, etc. One thing that may impact the decision whether to pursue a civil suit is to talk to **mudgirl** when she gets home from school. I will tell her exactly what happened, and see if _she_ thinks the conditions of his supervised probation are adequate. If she doesn’t, we’ll be talking to her therapist about whether a civil suit may help her feel more like justice has been done. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/77 "2008-11-13T19:59:01Z")
**norinew** thank you for the update. I’m very glad punk1 has to have counseling, hopefully some of punkfamily will benefit from this. I hate to be a downer but will you have to go through this again with punk2, if his mother ever gets her act together? ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/78 "2008-11-13T20:02:47Z")
Another milestone passed! You made it through this one, you’ll make it through the others. It’s staggering to compare the quality of parenting that mudgirl gets to what apparently passes in the punks’ homes. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/79 "2008-11-13T20:04:15Z")
Good for you, **norinew**! And who cares what you had to do to get through the hearing - you do whatever you need to. I’m glad you got a judge who was able to see through Punk1 and PunkDad’s BS. I hope **mudgirl** feels like she got some closure. And if you feel like you need to press a civil suit, by all means, do so, if only for the reasons you’ve listed above. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379/80 "2008-11-13T20:04:46Z")
> [@Reepicheep](#): > > I hate to be a downer but will you have to go through this again with punk2, if his mother ever gets her act together? I will have to go through this again with Punk 2, but expect it to be less stressful. I already had a lot of issues with Punk 1’s family and his history. I don’t have the kind of emotional issues with Punk 2. HOWEVER. . .last time I got a subpoena to court for Punk 2 (and court date didn’t happen because his mother had still not gotten him an attorney), **mudgirl** got a subpoena, too. She didn’t get one of those with Punk 1. I’m hoping whatever happens, _she_ will not have to go testify. If she does, though, her father and I (and her therapist) will do our best to get her through it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-punks-who-assaulted-my-daughter-part-2/472379.md?page=5)