# The Queen Mother's Pre-Marriage Rank **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244 "2002-04-01T18:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![don\_willard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@don\_willard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_willard)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/1 "2002-04-01T18:38:38Z")
I read in the paper that the Queen Mother Elizabeth was the daughter of Lord Something- Bowles of Scotland, and her name was Lady Elizabeth. Her father later on became an earl, and the question is 1) what was he before he was an earl? His daughter could not be called Lady unless he was a duke, a marquis, an earl, or a baron or also maybe a viscount. And he could not be called a lord as in Lord Something-Bowles if he wasn’t himself one of those titles. When Lady? Elizabeth then married Edward VIII’s brother George, he was the Duke of Something Else and called Prince, as I understand it. Is 2) this right? Then she became a duchess or a princess or both,3) is this right? When her husband became King George, she became Queen Elizabeth and instead of being called Your Ladyship before she was married and then Your Highness (is this right for 4)?) after she was married, was she 5) called Your Majesty when her husbnand became king? Also, the article in the paper said she was “queen consort.” Does this 6) means something less than a real queen? 7)Was she called Dowager Queen after her husband died and she retired to Balmoral House or one of those places, or was she still Your Majesty or did she get demoted to Your Highness? Signed Puzzled About the Now Passed Away Queen ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/2 "2002-04-01T19:42:31Z")
[The Official British Royal Family Site](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page1011.asp) > [@](#): > > Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother was the mother of Queen Elizabeth II, the present British sovereign, and the widow of the late King George VI. The daughter of Lord Glamis, later 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, she was descended from the Royal House of Scotland and retained strong associations with Scotland. > > The Queen Mother’s remarkable life spanned over a century, a period of immense change. Having married Prince Albert, Duke of York in 1923, she found herself Queen Consort on the abdication of King Edward VIII in 1936. As Queen she played a significant role in the life of the nation, supporting the King and helping to uphold national morale during the difficult years of the Second World War and its aftermath. > > Widowed at the age of 51, she continued to undertake Royal duties for the next fifty years in support of her daughter, The Queen. Public appearances continued right up to the end of her life, even in periods of ill health. The resilience, sense of duty and gracefulness of The Queen Mother in all areas of her life earned her a secure place in the heart of national life. On a subsequent page is this clarification of her name and title at birth: “She was born the Honourable Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon on 4 August 1900 (fourth daughter of Lord Glamis, later 14th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne)” So to summarize: at birth she was **The Honourable Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon** , 4th daughter of Lord Glamis. When her father became the 14th Earl of Strathmore & Kinghorne she became **Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon**. When she married Prince Albert they were created The Duke and **Duchess of York**. When Edward VIII abdicated her husband became King George VI and she became **Queen Elizabeth**. Upon the death of her husband, she became **Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother**. As to your questions about how she was addressed; after her marriage she would have been **Your Royal Highness**. I don’t know if she was ever called **Your Majesty** as that honorific might be reserved for the sovereign only. As a child she was probably called **Miss** and later **Lady**. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/3 "2002-04-02T11:13:21Z")
She was **Your Majesty** (“Ma’am” for short) both as Queen consort and as Queen Mother. ---
**Author:** ![robinc308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@robinc308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinc308)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/4 "2002-04-02T11:47:47Z")
Just to add, although technically, she was the Queen Dowager, she took the title Queen Mother instead because she didn’t like the title Queen Dowager, and also because when she became Queen mother, there was already a Queen Dowager - namely Queen Mary. Techincally, from the time her husband became king, her title was **Queen Elizabeth** - for the rest of her life. To avoid confusion with her daughter, she was commonly known as the Queen Mother instead. For example Queen Mary was commanly referred to as Queen Mary rather than Queen Dowager or Queen Mother even after her husband died (and even though she was both anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@Milton\_De\_La\_Warre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milton_De_La_Warre)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/5 "2002-04-02T11:58:06Z")
I hope this will seem more as an addition than a hijack. I saw a news snippet on the funeral, and it appeared as if the flag over the coffin was definitely not the national flag, and not the royal colors (or whatever they’d be properly called). It looked as if one of the quarters had a white (“argent”) background. I would reckon this was the Queen Mother’s arms done up as a flag. Does anyone have a link as to what this looks like (other than draped over her coffin)? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/6 "2002-04-02T12:25:14Z")
The title “Queen dowager” can describe the widow of any reigning king. The title “queen mother” describes the widow of a reigning king who is also the mother of the current monarch. When George VI died, his wife could have been described either as the Queen dowager or as the Queen mother. However the title “Queen dowager” was already being used by Queen Mary, the widow of George V, who was still living, so George VI’s widow got the title of Queen mother. Although one or other of these titles is usually formally conferred on the widow of a king, it is often not used much in practice. Queen Mary, the widow of George V, was formally given the title of Queen dowager, but she was usually referred to as Queen Mary. There was no other Queen of that name, so no possibility of confusion. However the widow of George VI was called Elizabeth. The couple had been referred to as King George VI and Queen Elizabeth. To continue calling her Queen Elizabeth risked confusion with the new Queen regnant, Elizabeth II. So she was commonly referred to by the title of Queen Mother. I think the full title was “Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother”. Her personal standard (and the standards of other members of the British royal family) can be seen here: [http://www.flags.net/UNKG2.htm](http://www.flags.net/UNKG2.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/7 "2002-04-02T12:26:27Z")
**Encinitas** provided the main link - the Queen Mother’s arms are [here](http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page1068.asp). The blazon: > [@](#): > > The Arms of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland impaling quarterly first and fourth (for LYON) argent, a lion rampant azure, armed and langued gules, within a double tressure flory counter-flory of the second; second and third (for BOWES) Ermine, three Bows, strings palewise proper. So, the Bowes-Lyon arms incorporate, well, bows and lions. Such wits they are, down at the College of Arms. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/8 "2002-04-02T16:30:14Z")
It’s nearly a given that if the name or title can possibly be subverted to wordplay, the heralds will design something that does in fact make that bit of wordplay. On the title thing, two points: The Queen Consort is also properly addressed as Her Majesty, taking the same rank as her husband, who is King. This does not, however, hold true for Princes Consort like Albert and Philip. Between some point in the 1800s and 1947, the monarch of the United Kingdom was also the Emperor of India, in succession to the Mogul monarchs, the last of whom, holding no more than Delhi, had stepped down in 1857. As such, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, and George VI were officially King-Emperors properly addressed as His(Her) Imperial Majesty. And Queens Alexandra (Mrs. Edward VII), Mary (Mrs. George V), and Elizabeth (Mrs. George VI) were during that time properly Her Imperial Majesty. Out of curiosity, for the larger part of a year in 1952-53 there were **three** queens in Britain: Queen Elizabeth II, her mother Queen Elizabeth, and her grandmother Queen Mary. Was Mary officially Queen Dowager during this period, or was some special title devised for her as the queen who was the monarch’s grandmother? ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/9 "2002-04-02T16:36:34Z")
…And try to remember: she will call you “Mr. President”, but you are not supposed to call her “Mrs. Queen” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-queen-mothers-pre-marriage-rank/101244/10 "2002-04-02T16:47:10Z")
This site [http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Variations.htm](http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Variations.htm) which details changes to the State prayers in the Church of England’s prayer book suggests that, from the death of George V to the death of George VI, George V’s widow was was “Mary the Queen Mother”, and then she became “Mary the Queen Dowager”.