# The Qu'ran. Is it the word of God? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748 "2003-08-26T15:05:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c37758/32.png) [@Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Owes_Bess)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/61 "2003-08-31T12:10:22Z")
**Aldebaran,** Regarding **[DAbr393032@aol.com](mailto:DAbr393032@aol.com)** > [@](#): > > Abraham takes Issac up on the mountain and intends to sacrifice him but liars come along and substitute another name, an unworthy brother who is cast out because of weak moral character, and to justify this they say Mohammid says the scriptures were corrupted. How would he know? He was illiterate, we are told. He couldn’t read or write the Torah or the Talmid. He sounds almost like you. I think, maybe, you had better call for Tamerlane to help out here. Unless you’d like me to assist? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/62 "2003-08-31T12:40:53Z")
Grey, The studies still used by people like me and to whom you shall find reference in publications on this subject worldwide are: \*\*Régis Blachère Introduction au Coran \*\* I have the second edition (Paris 1977) . It was recently re-edited in Rabat. and \*\*Theodor Nöldeke, edit. Friedrich Schwally Geschichte des Qorans \*\* I have the third edition printed by Hildesheim - New York, 1981 I’m not informed it fhey are also available in English translations. Maybe you can inform yourself about this at the Princeton University. I know the library has both works in the original language. (I’m not informed about Universities in Canada) Those two works can answer all your questions, also the ones you express in your last sentence. Searching those answers in some kind of popular so called scientific work is in my opinion waist of your time and intellect. Salaam. A. ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/63 "2003-08-31T18:41:46Z")
**[DAbr393032@aol.com](mailto:DAbr393032@aol.com)**, > [@](#): > > I will print out your response and present it to all the Islamic professors I took classes from. Could you list the names of these professors? Where do they teach? Have they had any works published? Have they been peer reviewed? Is there a place on the Internet you could direct me to to read their views? And I’m still waiting for you to provide some citations for this remarkable comment: > [@](#): > > The Theory of Relativity, the First, Second and Third Laws of Thermodymanics, Laws of Gravity, etc. etc. are all in Genesis. That is what they now call kabbalah. It also mentions DNA and RNA, sperm counts, brain synapasis, sodium currents starting visual perception How about you quit rambling (and learn how to format your posts) and give some proof for your moronic statements. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/64 "2003-08-31T18:56:39Z")
**Grey** : You might want to check out this reading list: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198523](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198523) I don’t think I have anything exactly like what you are looking for in there, but you might other material of interest. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/65 "2003-08-31T19:38:40Z")
Tamerlane I looked at your list. If it comes to the MENA region, I can add a very interesting study to it: A Political Economy of The Middle East Alan Richards and John Waterbury Second Edition, Westview Press Oxford/Boulder,Colorado, ISBN 08133-2411-4 I find this among the best studies I’ve read. On the Arab history A History of the Arab Peoples Albert Hourani (Don’t have the editor available.) Then there is What went Wrong? Western Impact and Middle Eastern Response Bernard Lewis. Weidenfeld & Nicolson, UK and on the history of the Middle East in General The Middle East Bernard Lewis. (No editor available. Maybe Orion, Londen) On the Taliban and related issues Taliban Islam, Oil and the New Great Game in Central Asia Ahmed Rashid I.B. Tauris Publishers, London/New York. This is the comment of a journalist who worked since 1979 in Aghanistan and is of course not an academic study. Yet is is a very interesting work to read for those who want to gain information on the subject. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/66 "2003-09-01T01:16:32Z")
**Aldeberan** Akhi, I suspect that “alms” is a clumsy, uneducated reference to the mysterious “Alif Lam Mim” yhat begins a chapter or two of the Qu’rant Salaams Martin > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*DAbr… > > So sorry that I’m a little bit laughing here… > > By the way: > Tell your original historians that Muhammed was born in Mecca and went much later to Medina. And then he went back to Mecca. > > By the way: > Thank you for this post. Now I know what purpose those swords in my collection served. Can you inform me where all those rabbis are burried? > > By the way: There are several words one can use in Arabic for “alms”… But until now I didn’t encounter one that fits your description. > > Oh forget… Al Qur’an was written in English… Of course… That this language even didn’t exist at the time , who cares? > > “Alms” is the word I need to look for. > > OK. I’m off now, go dive in my library to see if I find one Al Qur’an, new, or old, or historical, that has the word “alms”. > > If I find one, I’ll let you know. > > Oh forgot… I don’t have an English one. Can you send me some because I need to throw all the others away now, no? > Thank you. > > Salaam. A \*\* **Aldeberan** ---
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/67 "2003-09-01T01:21:04Z")
…Qur’a **N** Spellcheck is your friend Martin ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/68 "2003-09-01T01:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > The Theory of Relativity, the First, Second and Third Laws of Thermodymanics, Laws of Gravity, etc. etc. are all in Genesis. That is what they now call kabbalah. It also mentions DNA and RNA, sperm counts, brain synapasis, sodium currents starting visual perception – all this 3,120 years ago in the East. The West has always been thousands of years behind the East. Get Real. Do some serious reading. Chapter and verse, sil vous plait? > [@](#): > > alef lamid mem Dude, it’s Alif Laam Miim, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![FairDink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed8c4c/32.png) [@FairDink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairDink)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/69 "2003-09-02T06:41:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soup\_du\_jour \* > \*\*Chapter and verse, sil vous plait? > > Dude, it’s Alif Laam Miim, IIRC. \*\* A good example of translation errors. Even if you spell these Hebrew letters this way in American, they certainly do not get pronounced this way in Hebrew. DAb has spelled these letters in the way they are meant to be pronounced (except Lamid is Lamed). Long time follower, first time subscriber - be gentle. ---
**Author:** ![DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@DAbr393032\_aol.com](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAbr393032_aol.com)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/70 "2003-09-02T13:02:51Z")
Yes, you are right, it is proper to be gentle. But it is hard through not on purpose because of the social and religious context in which most people learn their religious ‘truths.’ They learn them out of the context of the history in which they happened and from someone who claims authority from god and most of the time reality plays no part in that. Most of the time if a muslim were to ask me if we believed the koran was ‘the word of god’ I could answer simply yes. To tell them that it is the world of G-d quoted from the Talmid out of context in 4 word clauses here and seven word phrases there is too much knowledge for them to receive at one time. Cordially, Daniel ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/71 "2003-09-02T13:07:01Z")
Daniel, Are you going to answer my questions, or just continue with the incoherent drive-bys? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/72 "2003-09-02T15:50:14Z")
\*\* Tamerlane\*\* and \*\* Aldebaran\*\*, thanks very much for the reading list. Really I suppose I’d like to have a book that provides an overview of the history of the Qur’an along the lines of this amazing [Staff Report](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible1.html). ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/73 "2003-09-03T17:22:41Z")
Grey, Of course there are many non academic books on this issue, but I don’t think that is what you are looking for (and I don’t know which one I could recommend in English if any at all). Al Qur’an as text is a much argued and very lively discipline upto this day. Not only among Western specialists, but even already in the Hadith. But you can find the answers to your questions in the two works I refered to (Nöldeke and Blachère). Like I said, I can open a topic on the issue and answer your questions in a month or two from now. Maybe Tamerlane is informed if there are eventually English translations of the works of Nöldeke and Blachère or reliable studies in English. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/74 "2003-09-03T17:30:16Z")
> [@](#): > > A good example of translation errors. Even if you spell these Hebrew letters this way in American, they certainly do not get pronounced this way in Hebrew. DAb has spelled these letters in the way they are meant to be pronounced (except Lamid is Lamed). Well, we are talking about Arabic here. The combination Alif Laam Miem = A L M if translated in Roman script. I think you call that Latin script. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/75 "2003-09-03T19:20:25Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s _Qur’an._. The American Heritage Dictionary spells it “Koran”. But of course, it’s an Arabic word which was not originally spelled with Roman letters. So why give it some ridiculous, exotic spelling with a Q and an apostrophe instead of a straightforward one? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/76 "2003-09-03T19:52:52Z")
Scrabble. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/77 "2003-09-03T20:36:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > \*\*The American Heritage Dictionary spells it “Koran”. But of course, it’s an Arabic word which was not originally spelled with Roman letters. So why give it some ridiculous, exotic spelling with a Q and an apostrophe instead of a straightforward one? \*\* Because the English (and some other languages aren’t that good in it either) translation is incorrect. The first character is Qaf which is in Roman script Q Next: between QUR and what is written short as AN but what is pronounced as a long A there is - following the grammar rules of the alif madda - a stop required before pronouncing this long A. This stop is - when using normal Roman script - indicated by writing QUR ’ AN. So I’m sorry, but what you call a “ridiculous exotic spelling” is the correct translation of the original word. And I’m sorry, it is the one Muslims use, and the one I use in every non Arabic language that uses the Roman script. Maybe you could write to the editor of your dictionary that they should learn to translate foreign words correctly instead of calling the correct translation prematurely **ridiculous exotic**? Salaam. A. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2003, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/78 "2003-09-03T22:43:25Z")
So what are you going to do, Aldebaran, when you encounter a language which doesn’t use a latinate script? Why, you’ll probably do what everyone else in the world who transliterates a word from another language does: use the word’s spelling as the users of that language spell it. Like it or not, English spelling is not tied to Arabic spelling. The spelling with the Q and the apostrophe are actually an attempt at transliterating into English, not Arabic, but rather the IPA. So, I’ll beat the dead horse some more: _both_ Koran and Qur’an are legitimate spellings _in English_ of a word borrowed from another language. Are you now going to whine about the way we spell _orange_? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/79 "2003-09-04T14:39:13Z")
I’ve always liked the 17th century spelling, “Alcoran”, but that’s just ne. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748/80 "2003-09-04T19:23:07Z")
Monty, You argue besides the question. My reply was about the ignorance that made member sqweels use the term “riciculous exotic” spelling. Which is a rather arrogant remark seen the fact that I can refer with every reason to the spelling “Koran” as “riciculous incompetent”. Because it shows the translators absolute ignorance of the original language. Salaam. A [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-quran-is-it-the-word-of-god/197748.md?page=5)