# The Race for the GOP Nomination - Post-Thanksgiving Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 28, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819 "2015-11-28T12:40:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/561 "2016-02-02T22:12:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Virginia is not really Southern anymore, either. You haven’t been to most of Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/562 "2016-02-02T22:17:42Z")
Yeah, just the DC area, although most southern states these days have significant non-southern areas now. North Carolina has the research triangle, Florida has the tri county area in the south, and Georgia has Atlanta. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/563 "2016-02-02T22:25:13Z")
But who’s got the edge in the Electoral College there? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/564 "2016-02-02T22:43:32Z")
In DC? Dick Bupkis. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/565 "2016-02-02T23:32:39Z")
Yeah, you can’t really deny that the GOP is stronger in terms of sheer offices held than it has been in quite a while. What makes that possible is that the traditionally blue/liberal states in the northeast or the west coast are still willing to elect Republicans for governor, whereas citizens in the Deep South or Great Plains areas will see their states burn to the ground before they elect a Democratic governor. It’s why Brownback was reelected in Kansas, and how Bevin won the governorship in Kentucky. Stuff like Edwards winning in Louisiana are complete aberrations, and in his case it was only possible because everybody hated Bobby Jindal so much. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/566 "2016-02-03T00:49:48Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > citizens in the Deep South or Great Plains areas will see their states burn to the ground before they elect a Democratic governor. Louisiana, Delaware, Missouri, Montana, Virginia, West Virginia. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/567 "2016-02-03T02:29:05Z")
Missouri is much more complicated than the simple label “Deep South” or “Great Plains” would imply. Live VA, (and the US at large) it contains very different demographics who are mostly geographically segregated from each other but are locked within the common state (or US) border. So any given county will always elect a D or an R congressperson or local government. And will always vote D or R for state Governor or President. But the state as a whole is pretty evenly balanced which shows up in the mix of total support for State Governor, Federal Senators, and President. Those elections can, and have, gone both ways many time recently and will continue to do so. Just as marketers have used MO as a microcosm of the nation for decades of test marketing products, the parties might do well to move the MO primary ahead of all the others to get a solidly representative sample of the nation as a whole. And I want a pony. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/568 "2016-02-03T02:34:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Missouri is much more complicated than the simple label “Deep South” or “Great Plains” would imply. Live VA, (and the US at large) it contains very different demographics who are mostly geographically segregated from each other but are locked within the common state (or US) border. BTW, if you want to try to make some general sense of all that, [here’s](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_Nations_of_North_America) a start, but I think [this](http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029) [model](https://jaymans.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/north-american-nations-4-3.png) is probably more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/569 "2016-02-03T03:26:13Z")
I’m familiar with both books. Each are a good read. I was debunking the simplistic labeling that implies states are uniform entities. Some are; most aren’t. And even some an observer might naively think would be aren’t really. MO happens to be an example I’m well familiar with that’s one of those exceptions to the naïve assumption. I’m trending in the direction that it’s far more about demographics & socioeconomics than cultural geography. As such the \*Nine Nations \*book is getting real long in the tooth. Geography was destiny before about 1965. Since then, not so much, and less every day everywhere. It’s certainly not a factor in the major cities any more. Meanwhile mobility is spreading out and invading more and more of the previously frozen-in-place small city, small town, and rural populace. Even as social strata mobility is driving downwards, the willingness & ability of people to move physically to be amongst their own socio-economic class is going nowhere but up. It’s even more true for folks who do make the jump up a level and even moreso for their children. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/570 "2016-02-03T08:57:41Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Agree. It is certainly not a northeastern state. It is an eastern seaboard state. And the Eastern Seaboard is part of the Northeast. New England also has a name of its own, and is also part of the Northeast. > [@Peremensoe](#): > > The traditional boundary between North and South is the Mason-Dixon Line. And that fact didn’t make sense to those of us who grew up in this area 50+ years ago. Maryland was North, Virginia was South. Even then, Mason-Dixon as a N/S dividing line was a relic of history, not something with any current relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/571 "2016-02-03T09:17:13Z")
I grew up in the northeast, Upstate New York, then later was in Connecticut. So Maryland was to the south and, to me, is not part of the northeast. But let’s look globally at the **entire** east coast, from Maine down to Florida. Maryland is centrally on the coast. It is not northeastern USA nor is it southeastern USA. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > And the Eastern Seaboard is part of the Northeast. New England also has a name of its own, and is also part of the Northeast. > And that fact didn’t make sense to those of us who grew up in this area 50+ years ago. Maryland was North, Virginia was South. Even then, Mason-Dixon as a N/S dividing line was a relic of history, not something with any current relevance. No, the Eastern Seaboard is not part of the Northeast. Other way around: the Northeast is part of the Eastern Seaboard. See also here, emphasis mine: [East Coast of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Coast_of_the_United_States) > [@](#): > > The East Coast of the United States is the section of land that runs along the Atlantic Ocean. _ **This area is also known as the Eastern Seaboard** _, the Atlantic Coast, and the Atlantic Seaboard. The states that have shoreline on the East Coast are, from north to south, Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/572 "2016-02-03T09:35:24Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > No, the Eastern Seaboard is not part of the Northeast. Other way around: the Northeast is part of the Eastern Seaboard. Nitpick: Neither is a subset of the other. Syracuse, NY and Pittsburgh, PA are considered to be in the Northeast, I think, but not on the Eastern Seaboard. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/573 "2016-02-03T14:20:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Maryland lost its claim to southernness by joining the Big Ten. I’d say based on its political leanings and ignoring the Mason-Dixon line, it’s marginally northern. When we were moving from Los Angeles, we chose Maryland over Virginia. Maryland feels (mostly from taxes and politics) like the north, Virginia the south to me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/574 "2016-02-03T16:08:42Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > When we were moving from Los Angeles, we chose Maryland over Virginia. Maryland feels (mostly from taxes and politics) like the north, Virginia the south to me. Having lived in Virginia for nearly 30 years, and in Maryland for nearly 20, I’d concur. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/575 "2016-02-03T16:14:46Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Louisiana, Delaware, Missouri, Montana, Virginia, West Virginia. Virginia, West Virginia, and Missouri aren’t Deep South, and Delaware isn’t South at all. (Nor is Missouri really a Plains state.) Geographically, most of Montana is in the Great Plains, but that part of the state is sparsely populated even by Montana standards: you don’t need many people to raise and harvest the [dental floss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO_bKdRqkuQ) crop. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/576 "2016-02-03T17:05:47Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Missouri is much more complicated than the simple label “Deep South” or “Great Plains” would imply. Live VA, (and the US at large) it contains very different demographics who are mostly geographically segregated from each other but are locked within the common state (or US) border. > > So any given county will always elect a D or an R congressperson or local government. And will always vote D or R for state Governor or President. > > But the state as a whole is pretty evenly balanced which shows up in the mix of total support for State Governor, Federal Senators, and President. Those elections can, and have, gone both ways many time recently and will continue to do so. > Just as marketers have used MO as a microcosm of the nation for decades of test marketing products, the parties might do well to move the MO primary ahead of all the others to get a solidly representative sample of the nation as a whole. And I want a pony. Yeah, I agree with this. I always call Missouri “Midwest”, but it doesn’t fit neatly into a category. The Ozarks region is pretty different from the Kansas City metro area, for example. And, like a lot of states, there is a strong urban-rural divide, with the bigger cities (St. Louis and KC) going heavily D, and the rural and exburban areas going R. In 2008, I think, over 90% of votes in the cities of St. Louis and KC went for Obama, while the state overall went McCain. Then we have a big college town in the middle, where these days I see Bernie signs everywhere. I almost agree that having the Missouri primary early would be nice. Except that I don’t want to have to hear about it for months on end. I feel for those poor people in Iowa who probably just want to be able to go to a coffee shop and have a coffee in peace. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/577 "2016-02-03T17:13:11Z")
The people of Iowa milk a shitload of money out of this circus every four years, but still it must be nice for them to get this over with. Moving forward, I think it’s still Trump’s race to lose. Every four years all the pundits shit their pants over the Iowa results and in the Republican case, it turns out to mean squat. Trump is going to win NH handily, Christie and Kasich will drop, and Bush will stagger on till Florida. Trump, Cruz, and Rubio will fight it out on Super Tuesday, and it will over on that day. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/578 "2016-02-03T17:16:34Z")
OK, let’s go to the absolute definitive characteristic of The South: Do Marylanders, or do they not, eat grits? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/579 "2016-02-03T17:19:12Z")
It’s been 35 years since I lived in Maryland, but back then at least, it was definitely a Southern state. Not “deep south,” but South. Baltimore felt like a Southern city. The rural areas seemed even more Southern. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819/580 "2016-02-03T18:25:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, let’s go to the absolute definitive characteristic of The South: Do Marylanders, or do they not, eat grits? With or without Old Bay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-race-for-the-gop-nomination-post-thanksgiving-thread/738819.md?page=30)