# The Racist Roots of Gun Control **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351 "2012-12-28T04:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/1 "2012-12-28T04:26:58Z")
_ **this part written by gunchris, the link provided is the article about the racist roots of gun control** _ As a kid I used to wonder why the westerns I was so fond of always portrayed the white guy that sold guns to the Indians as the most evil character there was. I asked my dad why weren’t Indians allowed to have guns and he laughed and said “taking their land would have been dangerous if they had guns” When I lived in CA ( where the police determine who can carry who cant ) I used to wonder why African Americans get far more prison time for the same ( gun ) crime then whites do. Why do Hollywood celebs like Sean Penn get a license to carry even though he has domestic violence history, Rob Blake - didn’t he even shoot his wife?, yet in those same jurisdictions no way could some poor single mom, especially an African American or Hispanic get a license to carry. In Florida where the police do not have any say over who can get a license, it appears as if its equally divided among all ( so called ) races. Form 4473 the form you fill out for buying a gun, you have to put your “race” there and if you sincerely believe that there is only the human race the guy at the gun store wont submit the form. When it comes to a license to carry , liberal places seem to only want rich white men to enjoy Constitutional rights. * * * > [@](#): > > Copyright 1993 Clayton E. Cramer All Rights Reserved. Electronic redistribution is permitted as long as no alterations are made to the text and this notice appears at the beginning. Print reproduction or for profit use is not authorized without permission from the author. * * * [http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html](http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/2 "2012-12-28T04:32:54Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > As a kid I used to wonder why the westerns I was so fond of always portrayed the white guy that sold guns to the Indians as the most evil character there was. > I asked my dad why weren’t Indians allowed to have guns and he laughed and said “taking their land would have been dangerous if they had guns” > When I lived in CA ( where the police determine who can carry who cant ) I used to wonder why African Americans get far more prison time for the same ( gun ) crime then whites do. Why do Hollywood celebs like Sean Penn get a license to carry even though he has domestic violence history, Rob Blake - didn’t he even shoot his wife?, yet in those same jurisdictions no way could some poor single mom, especially an African American or Hispanic get a license to carry. > In Florida where the police do not have any say over who can get a license, it appears as if its equally divided among all ( so called ) races. > Form 4473 the form you fill out for buying a gun, you have to put your “race” there and if you sincerely believe that there is only the human race the guy at the gun store wont submit the form. > When it comes to a license to carry , liberal places seem to only want rich white men to enjoy Constitutional rights. > > * * * > > [http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html](http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html) I, for one, am unimpressed by your weird conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/3 "2012-12-28T04:36:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I, for one, am unimpressed by your weird conspiracy theory. thanks!😃 as far as CA is goes, its absolute fact. S Penn got his permit in Marin County where many people have applied, always to get turned down. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/4 "2012-12-28T04:40:44Z")
Just because a law might be applied in an uneven/racist manner does not mean the law itself was written with a racist motivation. Should we repeal all traffic laws because of arrests made for “Driving While Black”? ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/5 "2012-12-28T05:07:29Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Just because a law might be applied in an uneven/racist manner does not mean the law itself was written with a racist motivation. > > Should we repeal all traffic laws because of arrests made for “Driving While Black”? if you read the article you’ll see that indeed the laws were specific, they were in place due for racist purposes - yes, we must repeal laws if they are used for racism - especially vile traffic laws which are nothing but revenue for municipalities ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/6 "2012-12-28T05:14:15Z")
Funny thing is, I’ve heard the same kind of argument made the other way; that opposing gun control is racist. The idea being that if minority neighborhoods are flooded with guns, they’ll kill each other off for the benefit of the racists. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/7 "2012-12-28T05:20:22Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > if you read the article you’ll see that indeed the laws were specific, they were in place due for racist > purposes - > > yes, we must repeal laws if they are used for racism - especially vile traffic laws which are nothing but revenue for municipalities Sarah Brady was a racist? Why? Did she think John Hinckley was black? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/8 "2012-12-28T05:48:00Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > I asked my dad why weren’t Indians allowed to have guns and he laughed and said “taking their land would have been dangerous if they had guns” But, as it turned out, it wasn’t – so long as the U.S. Army had more guns, and better, and the industrial plant to make them, which the Indians distinctively lacked – as you know and as your Dad knew precious fucking well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/9 "2012-12-28T05:58:24Z")
And in fact the Europeans during the age of imperialism often sold or gave guns to the locals. See [the Musket Wars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musket_Wars) for an example. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/10 "2012-12-28T06:14:52Z")
Racism and gun control has surprising [twists](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/) and [turns](http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/tahmassebi1.html). All in all, a messy bit of history. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/11 "2012-12-28T06:37:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sarah Brady was a racist? > > Why? > > Did she think John Hinckley was black? please try to read the article, then I’ll take your questions - its like the subject matter annoys you so you would rather try to bait me into a fight. Lets have a friendly debate instead? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/12 "2012-12-28T06:40:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, as it turned out, it wasn’t – so long as the U.S. Army had more guns, and better, and the industrial plant to make them, which the Indians distinctively lacked – as you know and as your Dad knew precious fucking well. Why does the fact that gun control is inherently racist bother you? I grew up very liberal, determined by the age of seven to stomp out racism everywhere I encountered it. Rather then get angry at gunnies, why not be on the right side of history? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/13 "2012-12-28T06:46:08Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > Why does the fact that gun control is inherently racist bother you? It was not because of any governmental “gun control” that the Indians could make no effective resistance. As you know and as your Dad know precious fucking well. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/14 "2012-12-28T06:48:59Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > please try to read the article, then I’ll take your questions - its like the subject matter annoys you so you would rather try to bait me into a fight. > > Lets have a friendly debate instead? Thanks! I’m sorry but your claim here makes little sense. You squealed that the “laws” were racist. The Brady Bill has easily been the most famous and most prominent of the gun control laws of the past few decades. Please demonstrate how it was racist. Beyond that, I’d recommend if you want to actually persuade people as opposed to making inflammatory statements that cause people to laugh at you, I’d recommend reading Don Kates. He’s quite stupid and his arguments depend on fudging facts and hoping people don’t check up on his claims but compared to most of the gun rights crew he’s quite persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/15 "2012-12-28T06:51:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Funny thing is, I’ve heard the same kind of argument made the other way; that opposing gun control is racist. The idea being that if minority neighborhoods are flooded with guns, they’ll kill each other off for the benefit of the racists. who the heck is saying that? Some moron no doubt, they insist that African Americans lack impulse control or something? They insist that its wrong to be racist while insisting if it wasn’t for white liberals African Americans would go crazy and kill each other? That’s just plain nuts, loopy. If it were true we couldn’t have half of the police force we have. Tell that moron its the 21st century and everyone black/white/gay/straight have basic enumerated rights. Really, that’s one of the most stupid arguments I have heard. I have an African American friend who a total gun nut, always has a gun on him, owns legal machine guns - I feel safer with him holding a loaded machine gun. then I do with half of the cops I meet with holstered hand guns. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/16 "2012-12-28T07:02:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry but your claim here makes little sense. > > You squealed that the “laws” were racist. > > The Brady Bill has easily been the most famous and most prominent of the gun control laws of the past few decades. > > Please demonstrate how it was racist. > > Beyond that, I’d recommend if you want to actually persuade people as opposed to making inflammatory statements that cause people to laugh at you, I’d recommend reading Don Kates. > > He’s quite stupid and his arguments depend on fudging facts and hoping people don’t check up on his claims but compared to most of the gun rights crew he’s quite persuasive. \ The title of the thread is “The Racist Roots of Gun Control”. Ronald Reagan’s near-assassination is not even remotely the “roots” of gun control. I know that smacking this guy around is easy, but all the same he’s not wrong. The origins of gun control in this country are steeped in racism and xenophobia. While I don’t know what relevance that has today since we’ve long-since evolved the argument into a public safety one, it’s still a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/17 "2012-12-28T07:03:16Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > Why does the fact that gun control is inherently racist bother you? It’s not. > [@gunchris](#): > > who the heck is saying that? > Some moron no doubt, they insist that African Americans lack impulse control or something? People + guns = dead people. Guns are unhealthy to have around. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/18 "2012-12-28T07:06:00Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The origins of gun control in this country are steeped in racism and xenophobia. While I don’t know what relevance that has today since we’ve long-since evolved the argument into a public safety one, it’s still a fact. Bait and switch I think; “roots” has more than one meaning. Equating roots as in “historical roots” with roots in the sense of “the source of” allows **gunchris** to make the argument that gun control is inherently racist. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/19 "2012-12-28T07:31:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Bait and switch I think; “roots” has more than one meaning. Equating roots as in “historical roots” with roots in the sense of “the source of” allows **gunchris** to make the argument that gun control is inherently racist. As rare as it is for me to agree with **Der Trihs** on something, exactly this. The reasons gun control may or may not have been enacted in the past are not relevant to the questions at issue in the policy debate today. And as this thread seems to be a direct response to the trending and contemporary policy debate, it’s only fair to observe this by way of refuting the implied premise. ---
**Author:** ![gunchris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@gunchris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunchris)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/20 "2012-12-28T07:36:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not. > > People + guns = dead people. Guns are unhealthy to have around. gun control minus gun equals control. control freaks will obsess over stuff no matter how many laws they get passed. “The longer you live, the sooner you bloody will die” The Clancy Brothers [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351.md?page=2)