# The Racist Roots of Gun Control **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351 "2012-12-28T04:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/41 "2012-12-28T13:01:20Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Millions swam near sharks last year; 17 died… > sorta like registered gun owners and murders related to registered gun owners? Probably not exactly. My point (which I’m sure you didn’t miss) is that a single data point is only a refutation of an absolute argument, which **DT** ’s was not. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/42 "2012-12-28T13:01:59Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > Cars are\*\*\* for\*\*\* racing, that’s why I own a 22 yr old toyota with 245 thousand miles, _I’m a racer_ This is not your only gratuitous mention of “race” in this thread, but it is your most relevant. Your logic is impressive: cars are for racing (really? not for travelling to work and school and the Piggly-Wiggly?) and since that is so (?), you therefore own a car, and (?) the make and mileage of your car is a relevant factor in this argument. I’d stick to the race-based arguments–you’re on much more solid ground there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/43 "2012-12-28T13:22:57Z")
> [@gunchris](#): > > As a kid I used to wonder why the westerns I was so fond of always portrayed the white guy that sold guns to the Indians as the most evil character there was. Probably a leftover from the Custer debacle. The Sioux carried repeating rifles at Little Bighorn while Custer’s troops were armed with less effective single-shot weapons (Custer could have had a Gatling gun but left it behind, thinking it would slow him down. :rolleyes:) > [@gunchris](#): > > When it comes to a license to carry , liberal places seem to only want rich white men to enjoy Constitutional rights. What, no love for Rosie O’Donnell? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/44 "2012-12-28T13:24:03Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > I have guns around all the time and I’m not dead. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/45 "2012-12-28T14:59:48Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’d say that’s probably true of a great many different laws - the failure is in the implementation, not the concept of the law itself. True, but I think we have to be especially careful when we’re talking about laws which affect Constitutional rights. We don’t want to keep guns out of the hands of poor people, or racial or ethnic minorities, just out of the hands of the criminally inclined, the reckless, and the careless. So any gun control laws should be examined carefully to make sure they’re not having an unwanted disparate impact on the poor or minorities before they are passed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/46 "2012-12-28T15:04:19Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > It just happens to be easier to blame the tool rather address any of the complex issues that lead to violent crime. How would you address those? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/47 "2012-12-28T15:07:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Funny thing is, I’ve heard the same kind of argument made the other way; that opposing gun control is racist. The idea being that if minority neighborhoods are flooded with guns, they’ll kill each other off for the benefit of the racists. Minority neighborhoods **are** flooded with guns and the people **are** killing each other; just not fast enough to make a dent in the population. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/48 "2012-12-28T23:57:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I agree that minorities would be prosecuted more vigorously than whites for gun law violations, the same as virtually every other law. That doesn’t make the law or its creators racist, it is just an acknowledgment that law enforcement in the US is not color blind. > > When the chief opposition to gun control comes from the Republicans and the Republicans are the party of white people first, then it’s pretty conclusive that the origins of gun control is not seeped in racism. …and again you come up with something ridiculous. Democrats supported slavery and Jim Crow laws, therefore they are the party of racism. See, I can make stuff up too. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/49 "2012-12-29T00:07:04Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > …and again you come up with something ridiculous. Democrats supported slavery and Jim Crow laws, therefore they are the party of racism. See, I can make stuff up too. Oh, c’mon, **Doors,** you **know** that “the Republicans are the party of white people first,” simply because the Dems ain’t any more and (at this stage of our history) one party or the other inevitably will be. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/50 "2012-12-29T00:08:05Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Democrats supported slavery and Jim Crow laws, therefore they are the party of racism. See, I can make stuff up too. No, that’s just ignoring history. The Democrats were the party of racism; now the Republicans are the party of racism. And it’s really pretty much the same people (or their descendents) involved anyway; they just switched parties. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/51 "2012-12-29T00:12:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, c’mon, **Doors,** you **know** that “the Republicans are the party of white people first,” simply because the Dems ain’t any more and (at this stage of our history) one party or the other inevitably will be. I know that, and he knows that the origins of gun control are steeped in racism, he’s just choosing not to look any further back than yesterday so I made fun of him for it. He’s disingenuous in every gun control debate and deserves to be called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/52 "2012-12-29T00:19:19Z")
> [@JLRogers](#): > > Demonstrably untrue. I have guns around all the time and I’m not dead. > > The root cause of violence is not the implement thereof. It just happens to be easier to blame the tool rather address any of the complex issues that lead to violent crime. I have a loaded LCP in my pocket as I type. I’m feeling pretty healthy, for a man of my age. And if somebody breaks into my house, I guess I’ll feel a whole lot healthier than he does. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/53 "2012-12-29T00:21:06Z")
“In his book Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, civil rights attorney and gun scholar Don Kates found racial overtones in the focus on the Saturday Night Special[16] (“niggertown Saturday night special”). Even gun control advocate Robert Sherrill claimed: “The Gun Control Act of 1968 was passed not to control guns but to control blacks.”[17]” > **[Saturday night special](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_night_special)** > > Saturday night special is a colloquial term in the United States and Canada for inexpensive, compact, small-caliber handguns made of poor quality metal. Sometimes known as junk guns, some states define these guns by means of composition or material strength. In the late 19th century and early 20th century, they were commonly referred to as suicide specials. > The term "Saturday night special" refers to cheap guns used in poor neighborhoods. They are usually small, of small caliber, and often unr... ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/54 "2012-12-29T00:22:04Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I have a loaded LCP in my pocket as I type. I’m feeling pretty healthy, for a man of my age. > > And if somebody breaks into my house, I guess I’ll feel a whole lot healthier than he does. Unlikely, given that almost certainly you’ll either be asleep or gone. Burglars break into homes to steal stuff with as little risk as possible; not to challenge the homeowner to single combat. And as far as health goes, you’re more likely to kill yourself with your gun than you are to kill a burglar with it. And what makes you think that the burglar won’t be armed too, and at least as good a shot? ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/55 "2012-12-29T00:30:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Unlikely, given that almost certainly you’ll either be asleep or gone. Burglars break into homes to steal stuff with as little risk as possible; not to challenge the homeowner to single combat. And as far as health goes, you’re more likely to kill yourself with your gun than you are to kill a burglar with it. > > And what makes you think that the burglar won’t be armed too, and at least as good a shot? Ever wonder why burglars break into homes when the occupants aren’t home? I’ll give you a hint: it’s the same reason mass murderers conduct their rampages in “gun-free” zones. And of course, I consider it likely that any intruder will be armed. There’s a reason why Sam Colt’s revolver was called “the equalizer”. The way I see it, I’ve got two options: 1. Be armed, and stand roughly a 50/50 chance of winning. (Probably a bit more, as I’m a fair shot and on my own turf.) or 1. Be unarmed, scream like a girl, and die. I’ll take option 1 all week long and twice on Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/56 "2012-12-29T00:35:39Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Ever wonder why burglars break into homes when the occupants aren’t home? Because they want to steal stuff with minimum risk and effort. > [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I’ll give you a hint: it’s the same reason mass murderers conduct their rampages in “gun-free” zones. They don’t. There was just a mass shooting in a police station. > [@ChickenLegs](#): > > And of course, I consider it likely that any intruder will be armed. There’s a reason why Sam Colt’s revolver was called “the equalizer”. The way I see it, I’ve got two options: > > 1. Be armed, and stand roughly a 50/50 chance of winning. (Probably a bit more, as I’m a fair shot and on my own turf.) > > or > > 1. Be unarmed, scream like a girl, and die. > > I’ll take option 1 all week long and twice on Sundays. Of course; like most gun owners you don’t care about the greater likelihood that you’ll end up killing an innocent person or yourself. The lives of friends and family don’t matter. Your _own_ life doesn’t matter. Guns; now guns matter. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/57 "2012-12-29T00:37:34Z")
I was waiting for someone to bring up Don Kates. I’m surprised it took this long. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/58 "2012-12-29T00:38:18Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Ever wonder why burglars break into homes when the occupants aren’t home? I’ll give you a hint: it’s the same reason mass murderers conduct their rampages in “gun-free” zones. > > And of course, I consider it likely that any intruder will be armed. There’s a reason why Sam Colt’s revolver was called “the equalizer”. The way I see it, I’ve got two options: > > 1. Be armed, and stand roughly a 50/50 chance of winning. (Probably a bit more, as I’m a fair shot and on my own turf.) > > or > > 1. Be unarmed, scream like a girl, and die. > > I’ll take option 1 all week long and twice on Sundays. Which raises two important points: 1. Anti-gunners seriously underestimate the deterent effect of gun ownership. The simple fact that a person may be armed discourages much crime. 2. You’ll have a heck of a hard time convincing guys like me that I’ll somehow be safe if I’m disarmed. I’ve been shooting for 35 years and carrying daily for more than ten years. I’ve walked hundreds of miles in the woods while hunting with a loaded firearm, and probabaly thousands while legally carrying concealed or open for defesvive purposes. No accidents at all. I’ve walked through Detroit City, and into grizzly country. To suggest that I’m safer without a gun than with one is just ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/59 "2012-12-29T00:40:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because they want to steal stuff with minimum risk and effort. > > They don’t. There was just a mass shooting in a police station. > > Of course; like most gun owners you don’t care about the greater likelihood that you’ll end up killing an innocent person or yourself. The lives of friends and family don’t matter. Your _own_ life doesn’t matter. Guns; now guns matter. This is just stupid. I carry guns to protect my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents. Others lake the fortitude to do so, and voluntarily outsource this duty to armed mercenaries. I don’t. If you’re cowardly and unwilling to protect yourself and your loved ones, that’s OK. Some people are just born weak. But please, don’t try to take the means of defense away from those who are able and willing. And the police station shooting you’re talking about - is that the one that ended with no deaths and the perpetrator being shot? Just happened today or yesterday? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/60 "2012-12-29T00:41:42Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > 1. Anti-gunners seriously underestimate the deterent effect of gun ownership. The simple fact that a person may be armed discourages much crime. Nonsense, it just means you have something else to steal; your gun. If a criminal thinks you have a gun it won’t deter them, it just means they’ll make sure they have their gun pointed at you or they’ll just shoot you first. And that they’ll grab your gun for themselves. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351.md?page=4)