# The Racist Roots of Gun Control **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351 "2012-12-28T04:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/61 "2012-12-29T00:42:45Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I carry guns to protect my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents. You don’t, and you aren’t. Guns don’t make people safer. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/62 "2012-12-29T00:50:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You don’t, and you aren’t. Guns don’t make people safer. They probably don’t make YOU safer. Sorry for your condition. I’ll try to cover for you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/63 "2012-12-29T00:53:39Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > They probably don’t make YOU safer. Sorry for your condition. I’ll try to cover for you. They don’t make people in general safer, including the people who own them. And given the general attitudes of pro-gun people, I think you are more likely to be inclined to kill me than help me if you were to encounter me. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/64 "2012-12-29T01:08:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They don’t make people in general safer, including the people who own them. And given the general attitudes of pro-gun people, I think you are more likely to be inclined to kill me than help me if you were to encounter me. LOL. This is the paranoia we face. Message me if you’re ever in Wyoming. I’ll take you shooting. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/65 "2012-12-29T01:09:33Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I carry guns to protect my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents. No. The police do. You don’t. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/66 "2012-12-29T01:12:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No. The police do. You don’t. I don’t carry a gun? The total denial of reality from some of you guys is astounding. I can’t tell you the last time I’ve seen a policeman. I certainly don’t have one following me around. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/67 "2012-12-29T01:13:31Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > This is the paranoia we face. It’s not paranoia when gun fetishists make a point of showing up with guns at political rallies and we hear speeches about “Second Amendment solutions”. Nor is it paranoia when the statistics show that guns in a home are more likely to kill themselves or an innocent than a criminal. Feeling the need to arm yourself because the criminal horde is going to descend upon you at any moment; that’s paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/68 "2012-12-29T01:22:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nor is it paranoia when the statistics show that guns in a home are more likely to kill themselves or an innocent than a criminal. Outside of the name calling your claim there is false. Please provide a cite. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/69 "2012-12-29T01:24:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s not paranoia when gun fetishists make a point of showing up with guns at political rallies and we hear speeches about “Second Amendment solutions”. Nor is it paranoia when the statistics show that guns in a home are more likely to kill themselves or an innocent than a criminal. > > Feeling the need to arm yourself because the criminal horde is going to descend upon you at any moment; that’s paranoia. The odds of an American being a victim of violent crime in any given year is about 2%, if I recall correctly. I’m sure it’s somewhat lower in Wyoming. We’re pretty much all armed. Two things about statistic about being more likely to kill an innocent than a criminal: 1. This is discredited claptrap from the 80s. They counted “friends and family members” as innocents, wherein anyone known to the attempted victim was a “friend”. And family members and people known to the attempted victim are the most likley perpetrators. 2. You ignore the deterent effect I mentioned earlier. That being said, it’s irrelevant. In 35 years of owning/carrying , I haven’t shot any innocents. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/70 "2012-12-29T01:26:29Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > LOL. This is the paranoia we face. > > Message me if you’re ever in Wyoming. I’ll take you shooting. You’re terrified of crime in Wyoming? I can understand people living in certain urban areas feeling the need to have a gun for self-defense, but Wyoming? > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Der Trihs > Nor is it paranoia when the statistics show that guns in a home are more likely to kill themselves or an innocent than a criminal. How can a gun kill itself?😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/71 "2012-12-29T01:27:50Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > I don’t carry a gun? The total denial of reality from some of you guys is astounding. > > I can’t tell you the last time I’ve seen a policeman. I certainly don’t have one following me around. You do not carry a gun to protect “my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents.” The police do. I hope I never have to depend on an amateur/vigilante gun owner to protect **me** from a threat! He’d be more dangerous to me than the bad guys! Far better if he’s not around-and-armed at all when the punks or the maniacs come for me! ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/72 "2012-12-29T01:28:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re terrified of crime in Wyoming? > > I can understand people living in certain urban areas feeling the need to have a gun for self-defense, but Wyoming? Nope. We have low crime rates, and like it that way. So we keep doing what works. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/73 "2012-12-29T01:29:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You do not carry a gun to protect “my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents.” The police do. I hope I never have to depend on an amateur/vigilante gun owner to protect **me** from a threat! He’d be more dangerous to me than the bad guys! Far better if he’s not around-and-armed at all when the punks come for me! Keep screaming what I don’t do. Try doing it louder. Maybe it will become true. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/74 "2012-12-29T01:36:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You do not carry a gun to protect “my own life, my friends’ lives, my family’s lives, and the lives of innocents.” The police do. I hope I never have to depend on an amateur/vigilante gun owner to protect **me** from a threat! He’d be more dangerous to me than the bad guys! Far better if he’s not around-and-armed at all when the punks or the maniacs come for me! Like this? > **[Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More](https://news.yahoo.com/)** > > The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos. Which brings me to another point: Studies repeatedly show that private citizens are quicker to stop violent crime, and far less likely to shoot innocents, than are the police. Mostly because they are there when it happens, and I suspect, more careful. If I shoot a guy by mistake, I go to jail. If the cops do, they get a few months of paid leave, at worst. Also, I’ve shot with many cops. Most police are required to qualify once a year, shooting 50-100 rounds. I shoot 200+ rounds per session, maybe 15 times per year. I’m a mediocre amateur, but I’ll give even money that I can outshoot four out of five randomly selected police officers at any course of fire they prefer. Edit: The cops I shot with where from the Detroit area. The only cop I know in Wyoming is Sheriff Baze. I think I heard he can shoot. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/75 "2012-12-29T02:28:23Z")
What makes a police officer valuable is not his skill at shooting, its his judgement in knowing when not to. > [@](#): > > …Studies repeatedly show that private citizens are quicker to stop violent crime, and far less likely to shoot innocents, than are the police… And these studies, which have shown? Repeatedly? Right at your fingertips, are they? Then by all means, share. See, here on the citing range, you are expected to be able to do that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/76 "2012-12-29T02:39:28Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Nope. We have low crime rates, and like it that way. So we keep doing what works. Keeps the alligators away, too. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/77 "2012-12-29T03:05:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What makes a police officer valuable is not his skill at shooting, its his judgement in knowing when not to. > > And these studies, which have shown? Repeatedly? Right at your fingertips, are they? Then by all means, share. See, here on the citing range, you are expected to be able to do that. Oh, you are not. See the numerous posts above with idiotic claims for evidence. And where do the police get their judgement? If you say “training” or the “selection process” I’ll laugh until I cry. I actually know some police officers. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/78 "2012-12-29T03:07:30Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Oh, you are not. See the numerous posts above with idiotic claims for evidence. > > And where do the police get their judgement? If you say “training” or the “selection process” I’ll laugh until I cry. I actually know some police officers. Look, if these “studies” exist and they’re reliable then they should be easy to produce. Please do so. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/79 "2012-12-29T03:08:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Keeps the alligators away, too. Yeah. Obviously there are more factors at work influencing the crime rate in Wyoming than just gun ownership. But I’m so sick of the the antis saying “but but but Canada!” and “but but but England!” that I had to do it. The crime rate in my house, with 100% gun ownership, is lower than that of any country in the world. So is the suicide rate. Valuable information, that. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351/80 "2012-12-29T03:11:14Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Look, if these “studies” exist and they’re reliable then they should be easy to produce. > > Please do so. > > Thanks. There’s always one wise apple who reads through multiple pages of baseless claims that support his opinion, then smugly asks me to produce a cite. You’re not worth my time. How about giving me a cite that shows that “What makes a police officer valuable is not his skill at shooting, its his judgement in knowing when not to.” Or just go away. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/645351.md?page=5)