# The racist Tea Party is in love with Herman Cain **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876 "2011-10-26T16:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/181 "2011-10-27T22:02:54Z")
Given that a girl’s father is significantly more likely to rape her than a man who is not her father, shouldn’t you advise your daughter to steer clear of you? ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/182 "2011-10-27T22:08:02Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Given that a girl’s father is significantly more likely to rape her than a man who is not her father, shouldn’t you advise your daughter to steer clear of you? Not relevant to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/183 "2011-10-27T22:11:29Z")
Well that learned me. Guess I need me some of that MIT edjumication. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/185 "2011-10-27T22:22:31Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > **Willingness to vote for a black candidate doesn’t mean you’re not racist.** Guess what? Some of the Democrats who voted for Obama are racist too. My ‘charge’ is that your fundamental premise for your OP is based on flawed logic. And now you’re scrambling around trying to find a new place to draw a line so you can engage in your usual tactics, but no one is playing that game. [Anecdote from the '08 campaign trail:](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-western-pennsylvania.html) > [@](#): > > So a canvasser goes to a woman’s door in Washington, Pennsylvania. Knocks. Woman answers. Knocker asks who she’s planning to vote for. She isn’t sure, has to ask her husband who she’s voting for. Husband is off in another room watching some game. Canvasser hears him yell back, “We’re votin’ for the n\*\*\*er!” > > Woman turns back to canvasser, and says brightly and matter of factly: “We’re voting for the n\*\*\*er.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/186 "2011-10-27T22:33:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m confident I’m not the only centrist who’s remarked upon its gaping holes. I never pictured you as a centrist. Just to refresh my recollection, can you remind me of positions you’ve taken that would not be supported by the Democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/187 "2011-10-27T22:38:40Z")
Herman Cain’s popularity seems to be based almost entirely on his repeated assertions that America does not have a white-black racial problem and his own racist statements towards other races. He hates Arabs and Mexicans to the point of developing gradeschooler-like fantasies of making big machines that kill them all (he might as well propose building them out of Lego while he’s at it). Combine that with him being willing to do a shuck-and-jive about how black people need to stop whining about the imaginary racism that doesn’t exist and it’s pretty obvious why right-wing white people like him. The Tea Party doesn’t like Herman Cain _in spite of_ its racism, it likes him _because of it._ ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/188 "2011-10-27T22:41:44Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Stawman, Bricker. I didn’t say that one needed 100% uniformity in behavior of a given group in order to justifiably discriminate for or against its members. The percentage threshold required to make such distinctions is a function of the consequences of not discriminating. Like when Jesse Jackson said, “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved…”, he validly discriminated in favor of being alone at night with a white person not because ALL blacks are muggers, but just because a black is more likely to be one than a white or asian. Jesse Jackson is an idiot. In this case, his idiocy is two-fold: he falsely arrives at a sense of security that is unjustified, since there are plenty of white and asian street criminals; and he also incorrectly places on every black face the burden of disproving themselves criminal. The effect of his attitude is slight, perhaps, but wrong nonetheless. > [@](#): > > At MIT, I happily assumed African Americans were as qualified as any other student (which I’ve subsequently learned is patently false given the consistent ~300 point mean SAT difference between AA and white males) when it came time to choose lab partners as the ramification of my being wrong was just a lower grade. On the other hand, I would advise against my daughter choosing a black boyfriend given the potential consequences if her character assessment is wrong: the odds of a black man giving her an STD or raping her her are many times higher than for a white man. I hope your daughter learns to be free of the pernicious influence of this guidance. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/189 "2011-10-27T22:43:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I never pictured you as a centrist. > > Just to refresh my recollection, can you remind me of positions you’ve taken that would not be supported by the Democrats? I have no idea whether \*\*Jackmannii \*\*is a centrist or not, but the political center is not the nexus between Democrats and Republicans, but rather the median voter. So the challenge should to point to things he supports that the liberal side of the 50% would not support. Otherwise you penalize him for the excesses of the modern GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/190 "2011-10-27T22:45:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Anecdote from the '08 campaign trail:](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-western-pennsylvania.html) So it is racist for whites to vote for Obama’s opponent because Obama is black, but not racist for blacks to vote for Obama because he is black? If that’s so, does it mean it is racist for blacks in Zimbabwe to vote for Mugabe but not racist for whites to vote for a caucasian alternative? (hypothetical, of course, given Mugabe doesn’t believe in elections) In 2008, 96% of blacks voted for Obama. You can estimate the standard deviations from a normally distributed mean yourself. Yes, blacks vote 80%+ democrat every year, but the 96% is the most ever and 12-13% greater than even the 83-84% the “first black president” Clinton earned. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/191 "2011-10-27T22:46:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I have no idea whether \*\*Jackmannii \*\*is a centrist or not, but the political center is not the nexus between Democrats and Republicans, but rather the median voter. > So the challenge should to point to things he supports that the liberal side of the 50% would not support. Otherwise you penalize him for the excesses of the modern GOP. Very valid point. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/192 "2011-10-27T22:47:28Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > So it is racist for whites to vote for Obama’s opponent because Obama is black, but not racist for blacks to vote for Obama because he is black? It’s racist in each case. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/193 "2011-10-27T23:00:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Jesse Jackson is an idiot. > > In this case, his idiocy is two-fold: he falsely arrives at a sense of security that is unjustified, since there are plenty of white and asian street criminals Of course there are plenty of white and asian street criminals. No one is saying there aren’t. The point I’ve made is that, per-capita, the odds of a street criminal being black are much higher than white, and if the street criminal is a violent one, the odds increase further. For example, between 2001 and 2003 in the US, the decomposition of crimes based on race is as follows. These are facts. Damning, unpublicized, astonishing facts. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know about it. Absolute Figures\* - Blacks are 7x more likely than people of all other races to commit murder, and 8x more likely to commit robbery. - There were an average of 15,400 black-on-white rapes every year during this period, 139,000 robberies, 489,000 assaults, and 12,762 sexual assaults. By contrast, there were only 900 white-on-black rapes every year, 7,600 robberies, 101,000 assaults, and 3,217 sexual assaults. Inter-racial Figures\* - Of all 768,879 violent interracial crimes involving blacks and whites, blacks committed 85 percent and whites 15 percent. - Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black. - Blacks are an estimated 39x more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136x more likely to commit robbery. \*source: NCVS incident-level data for the years 2001 to 2003 as extracted from US, Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statis- tics (BJS), National Crime Victimization Survey, 1992-2003 [Computer file], conducted by Census Bureau (ICPSR 03995- v2), ed. Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) (Ann Arbor, Mich.: ICPSR [producer and distributor], 2005.) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/194 "2011-10-27T23:27:26Z")
The issues you raise are not damning, unpublicized, or astonishing. They are complicated, well-trodden, and largely unsurprising given what we know about the socioeconomics of crime. Here’s a good place to start to understand the context of the stats you cite: [Race and crime in the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States) That page is a little disorganized. The “higher crime rates” section of this publication provides a good summary: [http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd\_reducingracialdisparity.pdf](http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_reducingracialdisparity.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/195 "2011-10-27T23:30:47Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Absolute Figures\* > > - Blacks are 7x more likely than people of all other races to commit murder, and 8x more likely to commit robbery. > - There were an average of 15,400 black-on-white rapes every year during this period, 139,000 robberies, 489,000 assaults, and 12,762 sexual assaults. By contrast, there were only 900 white-on-black rapes every year, 7,600 robberies, 101,000 assaults, and 3,217 sexual assaults. Correlation is not causation. Perhaps some third factor causes this disparity – say, poverty? Are these numbers corrected for socioeconomic position? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/196 "2011-10-28T00:02:39Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > These are facts. Damning, unpublicized, astonishing facts. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know about it. You’re certainly wrong that your facts are “unpublicized”. They were published by the Department of Justice as part of the results of the National Crime Victimization Survey. I know this because you were kind enough to mention that in your own fucking post. On an unrelated note, I find it curious- and, perhaps, even telling- that you mention the higher probabilities that African-Americans will commit robbery or murder, but not the probability that African-Americans will commit rape. I was under the impression that MIT was an academically rigorous school. ---
**Author:** ![Implicit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Implicit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Implicit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/197 "2011-10-28T00:09:24Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Of course there are plenty of white and asian street criminals. No one is saying there aren’t. > > The point I’ve made is that, per-capita, the odds of a street criminal being black are much higher than white, and if the street criminal is a violent one, the odds increase further. For example, between 2001 and 2003 in the US, the decomposition of crimes based on race is as follows. These are facts. Damning, unpublicized, astonishing facts. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know about it. > > Absolute Figures\* > > - Blacks are 7x more likely than people of all other races to commit murder, and 8x more likely to commit robbery. > - There were an average of 15,400 black-on-white rapes every year during this period, 139,000 robberies, 489,000 assaults, and 12,762 sexual assaults. By contrast, there were only 900 white-on-black rapes every year, 7,600 robberies, 101,000 assaults, and 3,217 sexual assaults. > > Inter-racial Figures\* > > - Of all 768,879 violent interracial crimes involving blacks and whites, blacks committed 85 percent and whites 15 percent. > - Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black. > - Blacks are an estimated 39x more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136x more likely to commit robbery. > > \*source: NCVS incident-level data for the years 2001 to 2003 as extracted from US, Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statis- tics (BJS), National Crime Victimization Survey, 1992-2003 [Computer file], conducted by Census Bureau (ICPSR 03995- v2), ed. Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research (ICPSR) (Ann Arbor, Mich.: ICPSR [producer and distributor], 2005.) I think I see where you are going with this: the Tea Party members are criminals and that’s why they are in love with Herman Cain. Or you posted irrelevant garbage to promote your worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/198 "2011-10-28T00:32:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I never pictured you as a centrist. > > Just to refresh my recollection, can you remind me of positions you’ve taken that would not be supported by the Democrats? I’m reminded of the Thurber cartoon in which a lawyer presents a witness with a kangaroo and says “Perhaps _this_ will refresh your memory.” As noted, “the Democrats” are not the best group to use for comparison purposes, but just to refresh your recollection, check post #37 in this thread where I said “I am not among those dismissing the “tea party” as racist.” Of course, it’s not like the Democrats have a party plank declaring that tea partiers are racist, but some do think that way, as you have indignantly noted while trying to disprove the proposition in your inimitable way. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/199 "2011-10-28T00:44:53Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’m reminded of the Thurber cartoon in which a lawyer presents a witness with a kangaroo and says “Perhaps _this_ will refresh your memory.” > > As noted, “the Democrats” are not the best group to use for comparison purposes, but just to refresh your recollection, check post #37 in this thread where I said “I am not among those dismissing the “tea party” as racist.” I regard that as a sensible position, but was hoping you might have some other examples. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/200 "2011-10-28T01:08:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You’re not in the Pit here. Be very careful about personal remarks like this. Saying a post is incorrect is allowed; calling a poster dishonest is strongly discouraged. Thank you, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/201 "2011-10-28T05:20:49Z")
> [@Buchanan](#): > > Not relevant to the topic. Neither was your post about academic admissions and rape, but that didn’t stop you from making it. If that was offered as a serious example it was a spectacularly poor choice, and if it was intended to aggravate people, it’s unwelcome. With that I’m going to direct everybody to get back to the original subjects - the Tea Party, race, and Herman Cain - rather than getting bogged down in a discussion of academics and crime rates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876.md?page=11)