# The racist Tea Party is in love with Herman Cain **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 26, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876 "2011-10-26T16:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/21 "2011-10-26T17:24:08Z")
I believe that polls have suggested that something like one-third of Tea Party members support Herman Cain as their first choice for President. I’ll see if I can dig up a cite. In any case, while there are undeniably racists within the Tea Party (just look at the signs that have been cherrypicked and posted all over the internet, to the great outrage of the left), I don’t think that the Tea Party is composed exclusively or even mostly of hardcore White Supremacists who would never, ever vote for a non-White, non-Jewish candidate. I don’t doubt that it’s impossible for Cain to attract those non-racist members within the Tea Party and come up with a majority. Then again, I don’t think I ever claimed that the Tea Party was primarily motivated by racism, so I guess this isn’t entirely aimed at me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/22 "2011-10-26T17:25:37Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Your thesis should probably be limited to “At least 32% of the Tea Party is not racist”, since that is all your cite supports. And that’s without even considering whether it is possible to vote for a black man and still be a racist (I would take the position that it is). > > I don’t even agree with the notion that racism is a primary motivator of the Tea Party or one of its primary indicators. But the fact that 32% of them say they would vote for Herman Cain doesn’t disprove anything. Not in a vacuum, no. But let’s reason this out a bit. We’re assuming that 32% of the Tea Party are egalitarian, and the other 68% racist. How is it that the 32% would go uniformly to Cain? That is, all other things being equal amongst the egalitarians, we’d expect to see the same sort of uniform distribution among them – Cain favored, but not uniformly, and other support distributed among other candidates, right? And among the 68%, Cain would be eliminated as a possibility due to his race, so their distribution of support would be among the others in similar proportion to the 32%. That doesn’t make sense. To get to 32% that support Cain, you must concede that a majority are not racists, or posit that Cain is so oibviously the best choice that no reasonable person would choose another candidate, except on racial grounds. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/23 "2011-10-26T17:29:40Z")
Racism is the belief that a group of people, over all, are inferior. It does not require one to believe that every single member of said group is inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/24 "2011-10-26T17:29:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s a fact that the Tea Party has a lot of racists in it. > > [url=[http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html)]So the racism is there. But even a horribly racist slave master might have had a favored black person that he trusted and raised among the others. How is an op-ed piece a cite? > [@elucidator](#): > > Racism is the belief that a group of people, over all, are inferior. It does not require one to believe that every single member of said group is inferior. And how would one go about falsaifying the claim that the Tea Party are racist? The common sense answer would be, “If they support a black man for President, taht would go a long way to dispel the charge.” But now they are, and your response is, “Well, they see him as a tool.” So clearly that method of disproving the charge is out. How could the charge be disproven? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/25 "2011-10-26T17:29:57Z")
FTR, the 32% who support Cain are “Republican primary voters who support the Tea Party.” I’m not sure that it is safe to say 32% of Tea Party members like Cain. Based on the statement in the CBS pool where this comes from, I’m not sure it says anything at all about Tea Party members, unless they are a subset of the Republican party. Is that the case? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/26 "2011-10-26T17:31:57Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > FTR, the 32% who support Cain are “Republican primary voters who support the Tea Party.” I’m not sure that it is safe to say 32% of Tea Party members like Cain. Based on the statement in the CBS pool where this comes from, I’m not sure it says anything at all about Tea Party members, unless they are a subset of the Republican party. Is that the case? I’m pretty sure that the membership of the Tea Party leans strongly towards Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/27 "2011-10-26T17:37:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > To get to 32% that support Cain, you must concede that a majority are not racists, or posit that Cain is so oibviously the best choice that no reasonable person would choose another candidate, except on racial grounds. Closer, I think. I would say that 32% likely indicates that the majority (likely more like 2/3) of the Tea Party is not _so_ racist as to summarily dismiss the candidate that most matches their stated preferences solely by race. You can still be a racist and vote for a black man, of course (there were a few stories of exactly this happening in 2008, complete with racial slurs). The other 1/3 we really can’t say anything about - some of them likely eliminate Cain solely because of his race. It should be plainly obvious that any political movement will have some racists in it, and one that derives a good portion of its strength from anti-immigrant sentiment will likely have more racists in it than the average political movement. Regardless, I’ve always felt that the Tea Party hated Obama primarily because he was a Democrat, not because he was black. His blackness just gave another avenue of attack for those that inherently have negative associations regarding black people. They would hate him just as much if he were white, but have to come up with other insults and lines of attack. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/28 "2011-10-26T17:39:31Z")
Well, you could also say that the Tea Party likes Cain because he’s one of those born-again Christians they like so much, while they are being xenophobic against the Mormon dude. See? The Tea Party are bigots again. End of hread. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/29 "2011-10-26T17:44:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > From [Slate.](http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/10/25/gop_2012_cbs_news_nyt_poll_shows_herman_cain_up_by_four_points_o.html) > > Given the high frequency of accusations of racism against the Tea Party’s membership from this board and elsewhere, how do those people who claimed the Tea Party’s animus was due to the fact that there was a black man in the White House reconcile that belief with the support for Cain cited above? > > ETA: can’t edit titles, but “Harman” = Herman. > ETA2: in GD rather than Elections because the subject is the lack of racism in the Tea Party, not Cain’s campaign. Ok. I’ll try to make this simple. **Group A** Subset a Subset b Subset a is racist. Subset b might not be. Capiche? > [@Jas09](#): > > Regardless, I’ve always felt that the Tea Party hated Obama primarily because he was a Democrat, not because he was black. His blackness just gave another avenue of attack for those that inherently have negative associations regarding black people. They would hate him just as much if he were white, but have to come up with other insults and lines of attack. This makes sense. Also, racists not uncommonly find someone of color to “like” in part to create the illusion that they’re not racist. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/30 "2011-10-26T17:44:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How is an op-ed piece a cite? I’m citing the guy who did the poll. > [@](#): > > And how would one go about falsaifying the claim that the Tea Party are racist? Do a poll where you ask, “are you comfortable with black people and Mexicans?” As it happens, that poll found that they are not, at a higher rate than the populace at large. > [@](#): > > The common sense answer would be, “If they support a black man for President, taht would go a long way to dispel the charge.” Sometimes the common answer is wrong. The world is complicated. And what the Tea Party sees as a smug black man who won the election because of the race card, can push them to embrace a down-home, folksy black man who thinks right. > [@](#): > > But now they are, and your response is, “Well, they see him as a tool.” So clearly that method of disproving the charge is out. > > How could the charge be disproven? As I say, poll them. Which they did. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/31 "2011-10-26T17:46:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s a fact that the Tea Party has a lot of racists in it. > > [ Seriously? Your support for your claim is an Op Ed in the NY Times? One that cavalierly muddies the waters by throwing the issue of immigration (with no stipulation that it is no doubt illegal immigration) in with race? This is extraordinary work, even for you. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Herman Cain believes like they do, he has the same lack of intellect… [URL=“[Herman Cain - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain#Education_and_honors)”]Oh really?]([http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html)) > [@](#): > > Cain grew up in Georgia[20] and graduated from Morehouse College in 1967 with a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics. > > Accepted for graduate studies at Purdue, Cain received a Masters in computer science there in 1971,[21] while he also worked full-time as a ballistics analyst for the U.S. Department of the Navy.[22] I didn’t know that a degree in mathematics and an advanced degree in computer science, with real-world work as a ballistics analyst were such tell-tale signs of lack of intellect. Not to mention his great business success. Interesting take you have their on intellect. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/32 "2011-10-26T17:50:07Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Ok. I’ll try to make this simple. > > **Group A** > Subset a > Subset b > > Subset a is racist. > Subset b might not be. > > Capiche? Sure. But as my Post #22 indicates, subset a is a minority of Group A. I would therefore argue that it’s incorrect to characterize Group A as racist, when only minority subset A is actually racist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/33 "2011-10-26T17:53:09Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m citing the guy who did the poll. > > Do a poll where you ask, “are you comfortable with black people and Mexicans?” As it happens, that poll found that they are not, at a higher rate than the populace at large. You are referring to the 2006 poll, the one done before there was even a Tea Party? > [@](#): > > As I say, poll them. Which they did. No, they didn’t. Cite the poll, please. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/34 "2011-10-26T17:55:01Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, you could also say that the Tea Party likes Cain because he’s one of those born-again Christians they like so much, while they are being xenophobic against the Mormon dude. > > See? The Tea Party are bigots again. End of hread. Sure. I will agree that the Tea Party is bigoted with respect to religious beliefs. In majority, they would never accept a Muslim or an atheist, for example, even one who shared their fiscal and social policy views. I disagree that the Tea Party is racist, and I don’t regard the two as interchangeable accusations. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/35 "2011-10-26T17:57:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > how do those people who claimed the Tea Party’s animus was due to the fact that there was a black man in the White House reconcile that belief with the support for Cain cited above?. Cite for people that believed the Tea Party was racist **Solely** because their opposition to a black man in the White House? There were often a number of reasons people founded their belief the Tea part was racist. It wasn’t just ‘hey they oppose a black man so they must be racist.’ The number of highly racist signs at their rallies probably had a bit more to do with people concluding they were racist. If they start running around with signs that say ‘Vote for the Nigger we like!’ should we conclude they aren’t racist? ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/36 "2011-10-26T17:58:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m pretty sure that the membership of the Tea Party leans strongly towards Republicans. This is what the CBS news story says, that the Slate article paraphrases poorly: “Thirty-two percent of Republican primary voters say they would enthusiastically back Cain if he became the party’s nominee, while 30 percent would have reservations about him.” I’m not sure how the Tea Party figures into that. What the poll asks is: IF Cain were the Republican candidate for President would you enthusiastically support him. 32% said yes. Basically saying they would still vote Republican if Cain was the candidate. 80% of the people in the same survey said it was too early to make up their minds. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/37 "2011-10-26T18:00:18Z")
I am not among those dismissing the “tea party” as racist. It is possible more of them harbor racist views than the GOP (or Democratic Party) at large, as [some](http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/blogs/the-gaggle/2010/04/09/new-poll-finds-tea-partiers-have-more-racist-attitudes.html) (but not all) polling seems to indicate, but I find grounds for labeling the group as a whole racist weak to nonexistent. Often clueless and annoying, O.K. but not racist. That said, citing substantial support among tea partiers for Herman Cain as evidence of non-racist attitudes is weak also. If 32% of tea partiers like him, it says nothing about the remaining 68%. Among the 32%, supporting Cain’s candidacy doesn’t mean all of them have non-racist views (he could exemplify the “good Negro” unlike them lazy, shiftless criminal ones). And some of the alleged supporters could be saying they like him to shoot down allegations of racism in their movement, but have no intention of actually voting for him. I vote “fail” on this latest **Bricker** gotcha attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/38 "2011-10-26T18:01:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You are referring to the 2006 poll, the one done before there was even a Tea Party? You are misunderstanding things. They did a poll in 2006. Then in 2010 they did a second poll of the same people. They found out that the ones (of those polled) that joined the Tea Party were more racist than the population at large all along. > [@](#): > > No, they didn’t. Cite the poll, please. The poll itself is mentioned in the article. The actual numbers and crosstabs aren’t available, because, I assume, they put them in their book. I don’t have the book, so I can’t cite the particular specific poll results, but I can cite the author’s claims. Which I did. Ya dig? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/39 "2011-10-26T18:03:57Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Cite for people that believed the Tea Party was racist **Solely** because their opposition to a black man in the White House? I can provide a dozen cites from posts here that advance that reason, and only that reason, in support of the claim that the Tea Party is racist. While it’s true that I can’t think of any post that said, “By the way, this is the only reason I have for this conclusion,” it seems a reasonable inference that people with other reasons would mention those other reasons once in a while. > [@](#): > > The number of highly racist signs at their rallies probably had a bit more to do with people concluding they were racist. > > If they start running around with signs that say ‘Vote for the Nigger we like!’ should we conclude they aren’t racist? No, because then we would have additional evidence of racism, evidence that outweighed the support of a black candidate. What racist signs, by the way, do you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876/40 "2011-10-26T18:05:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I disagree that the Tea Party is racist, and I don’t regard the two as interchangeable accusations. Is hating Mexicans racist in your opinion? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-racist-tea-party-is-in-love-with-herman-cain/600876.md?page=3)