# The Rationale for Quitting Smoking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 21, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434 "2009-11-21T19:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/41 "2009-11-22T00:54:26Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > No smoking advocates will always turn to the health argument, but seriously, there’s a lot more dangerous things you can be doing besides smoking, like unprotected sex, alcohol, or fatty foods. Does anybody know the name of the fallacy that goes like this? **“There are worse things than X; therefore X isn’t so bad.”** Anyway, you seem to be making, or at least flirting with, this fallacy, here and in Post #13. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/42 "2009-11-22T01:17:03Z")
Superhal, you asked for a reason. Sure some people work in manure all day, that doesn’t cause cancer either, but I don’t really want to be around someone who reeks all the time. How the hell did civil rights come into this? I thought you wanted a non health related reason not to smoke. I gave you one…you’re changing the direction of this thread. I guess since there are worse things then second hand smoke we should be thankful for breathing it in. Tell the family of the kid with fatal complications that line. > [@Superhal](#): > > Maybe off on a tangent here, but smelling bad isn’t a good argument. I’ve smelled far worse from people than smoke, yet we don’t take away their civil rights or get in their face and insist they wash RIGHT NOW. > > Second hand smoke (trying to avoid the health argument here) is another can of worms. But, in the research I’ve seen, there’s only been one woman ever who died solely from second hand smoke (her husband was a chain smoker, and they lived in an enclosed space, she developed lung cancer.) The other studies I’ve seen show that second-hand smoke may cause serious or fatal complications in existing conditions (bronchitis, asthma, etc.) but rarely creates them, and that any pollutant would cause the same result. Some are even worse than second hand smoke (e.g. asbestos.) ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/43 "2009-11-22T01:42:33Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > It reduces your fitness and stamina, e.g., your ability to walk up a couple flights of steps/play softball/tennis/golf/skiing I walk quite a bit, often smoking while doing so. My regular walking pace on a treadmill is about 4.2 MPH. > [@](#): > > It makes your teeth yellow My teeth are naturally a slightly yellow color, no big there. And there are ways of fixing that, much like removing coffee stains from your teeth. > [@](#): > > It reduces your sense of taste I asked about that here on the dope and was advised that this is not true. > [@](#): > > Depending on how much you smoke, you may have to plan parts of your life around your habit - finding a place to smoke after a long plane flight or while you are watching a baseball game or concert Not a problem for me personally. > [@](#): > > Life insurance is more expensive This part I agree with. > [@](#): > > It takes up more time during your day than you think No it doesn’t. I smoke about a half a pack a day at 3-4 minutes each so that’s about 30-40 minutes a day. It’s rare that I’m smoking instead of doing something else anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/44 "2009-11-22T01:48:08Z")
> [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > I suppose a good reason to quit is to avoid being discriminated against then. Yeah, so all those gay people should just cut it out, already! Just kidding, honestly. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/45 "2009-11-22T01:59:40Z")
**Antinor01** - I’m a former smoker. All of the points I made came from my personal experience when I quit smoking about two years ago. YMMV. Wait, do you really smoke on the treadmill? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/46 "2009-11-22T02:03:31Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > **Antinor01** - I’m a former smoker. All of the points I made came from my personal experience when I quit smoking about two years ago. YMMV. Wait, do you really smoke on the treadmill? 😛 Heh. They won’t let me smoke in the gym. But when I’m out on a walk (usually a couple miles), I’ll often have one or two. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/47 "2009-11-22T03:17:46Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > … 3. The biggest benefit of smoking, in my opinion, is the same as a person I met on a plane once. He was Indian (from India,) but immigrated to the US when he was a child. He loves coffee, and he told me he drinks about a 2-3 32 oz cups per day. One thing he told me that didn’t make sense at the time (but is very relevant to this discussion): “Coffee is like magic. In the morning, it wakes me up. It gives me energy during the day. When it’s time to go to bed, it relaxes me.” Imho, this probably the best explanation for what I get from cigarettes: what I need, when I need it. … in short, you sacrifice your health to make you feel temporarily better (you, not the coffee drinker) if you’re not willing to stop for your own sake nor for others, what is the point of fishing for a rationale from anyone to stop? you already don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/48 "2009-11-22T03:21:11Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > It reduces your sense of taste > [@Antinor01](#): > > I asked about that here on the dope and was advised that this is not true. ``` You mean the following exchange in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509310) thread?: ``` > [@When do the benefits of quitting smoking kick in?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-the-benefits-of-quitting-smoking-kick-in/488484/1): > > I hear all these great things like your sense of smell gets better, things taste better, you turn into superman etc. > [@When do the benefits of quitting smoking kick in?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-the-benefits-of-quitting-smoking-kick-in/488484/3): > > All bullshit. Sounds like you don’t want to quit so light 'em up and enjoy. Is that all it takes for someone to convince you something isn’t true on this site, or does it just make you feel better about smoking so you’ll accept it without citation? There have been several studies that have showed it’s not bullshit. Here’s a recent one: [WebMD's Guide to Quit Smoking](http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20090821/cigarette-smoke-dulls-taste-buds) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/49 "2009-11-22T03:25:53Z")
Did we mention house fires, burns on furniture, car upholstery, dashboards, carpeting, clothes , ashes blowing into eyes ? How about stopping in a gas station on the way to work to hurry up get a pack when you run out and have to pay big bucks? How about scrounging around the house searching in desperation for a stub because you are in withdrawal. How about spending so much attention and time in your life to cigarettes? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/50 "2009-11-22T03:34:05Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > You mean the following exchange in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509310) thread?: Is that all it takes for someone to convince you something isn’t true on this site, or does it just make you feel better about smoking so you’ll accept it without citation? There have been several studies that have showed it’s not bullshit. Here’s a recent one: > > [WebMD's Guide to Quit Smoking](http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20090821/cigarette-smoke-dulls-taste-buds) That study doesn’t appear very conclusive. However, no one ‘convinced’ me of anything and I don’t need to feel better about smoking. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/51 "2009-11-22T03:46:30Z")
> [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > It reduces your sense of taste That’s crap, a smoker can enjoy a pound of garlic just like anybody else. (stolen from _Mad Magazine_) ---
**Author:** ![Fantome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Fantome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fantome)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/52 "2009-11-22T04:02:58Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > That study doesn’t appear very conclusive. One study on its own is rarely conclusive. I said it was one of many studies that concluded with smoking reducing the sense of taste and doctors, such as otolaryngologists, consider it a fact due to the same result from multiple studies. > [@](#): > > However, no one ‘convinced’ me of anything and I don’t need to feel better about smoking. Hard for me to buy since a legitimate study is something you’re not willing to accept because it’s not conclusive but someone “advising you that it’s not true” seemed to have been good enough for you. Hey, rationalize away and enjoy your addiction- no skin off my apple. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/53 "2009-11-22T04:10:44Z")
You might get away with not getting cancer, and maybe you won’t start a fire, but there is no changing the fact that **smokers stink.** All of them, every single one. You smell like shit. It’s in your hair, your clothes. You carry it everywhere you go, and it’s a horrifyingly persistent smell that can be left behind for hours, if not days. I mean, I wouldn’t want to smell gross. That’s reason enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/54 "2009-11-22T04:11:17Z")
> [@Fantome](#): > > One study on its own is rarely conclusive. I said it was one of many studies that concluded with smoking reducing the sense of taste and doctors, such as otolaryngologists, consider it a fact due to the same result from multiple studies. Then maybe it is, I haven’t studied it as much as you seem to have. [/quote] Hard for me to buy since a legitimate study is something you’re not willing to accept because it’s not conclusive but someone “advising you that it’s not true” seemed to have been good enough for you. Hey, rationalize away and enjoy your addiction- no skin off my apple. [/QUOTE] Again, that may be the case but I really don’t care. I’m not that invested in it being true or not being true. I don’t need to rationalize anything, but thanks for your concern. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/55 "2009-11-22T07:45:59Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Second hand smoke (trying to avoid the health argument here) is another can of worms. But, in the research I’ve seen, there’s only been one woman ever who died solely from second hand smoke (her husband was a chain smoker, and they lived in an enclosed space, she developed lung cancer.) The other studies I’ve seen show that second-hand smoke may cause serious or fatal complications in existing conditions (bronchitis, asthma, etc.) but rarely creates them, and that any pollutant would cause the same result. Some are even worse than second hand smoke (e.g. asbestos.) You have no way of knowing how many people might have developed lung cancer from second-hand smoke. There may only be one on record, but when someone who is a nonsmoker dies of lung cancer, the government doesn’t send out special agents to come in and investigate. The nature of diseases makes it almost impossible to conclusively attribute a cause to any one factor (excepting asbestosis and such). Example: a few years ago, a man wrote in to Dear Abby saying how he didn’t believe smoking caused lung cancer because he was a heavy smoker all his life and was fine, but his non-smoking wife had died of lung cancer. Abby pointed out that there was no way of knowing if perhaps his smoking had contributed to her early demise. You will always “like” smoking. That’s a product of the addiction. You just have to decide if the benefits you derive from smoking outweigh the potential harm. The positive benefits seem to be very few. And remember, you inherited 50% of your genes from your maternal side. They might not be as forgiving as the ones from the other side. I wouldn’t place a bet on those odds. Yes, smokers stink. So do their cars and houses. Your home’s resale value will be lousy if you smoke in it. Ask any real estate agent. Is this the house you plan on spending the rest of your life in? Because you’ll have a terrible time selling it if you don’t. Ever read any eBay ads? Sellers are sure to note if the product comes from a smoke-free house. Now, why would that be? Smokers wrinkle sooner, their skin develops a greyish pallor, and they look old before their time. Ever notice how old movie actors looked like they were 50 while they were in their 20s? When you hit 40, you will look at least 10 years older than all your friends. It may sound trivial now, but that is the age your hairline starts receding and that is exactly when you won’t want to look like an old man. This skin aging is due to the constriction of the blood vessels, which is the same reason surgeons don’t like to operate on smokers. In the 1980s, I read in the newspaper that when severed digits needed to be reattached, the success rate in children was very high, 90%, because of the excellent blood circulation; in adults, 70% success, but in smokers, it was only 40%. Figures may be different today, but that’s a very good example of the physical changes caused by smoking. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/56 "2009-11-22T11:08:51Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Maybe you should just let it go. You were looking for civil rights in the Constitution, so let’s just assume I have a better understanding of it than you do, so don’t try to question it. > > ps. Religion is also voluntary, unhealthy (Ramadan fasting) and protected. please note, Ramadan fasting is able to be skipped by small children, elderly, pregnant women and people with health issues. And if you are healthy, not eating from sunrise to sunset is not unhealthy, and frequently people do 12 hour or longer fasts all the time without a religious basis. Theoretically the same caveats pertain to jewish and christian fasting rituals. I have no direct experience with nonjudeo-christian ritual fasting. And I do not see why smoking should be a protected right, use the freaking patch and stop causing my COPD to roll into pneumonia. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/57 "2009-11-22T12:56:44Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > re: the benefits of smoking: > > 1. I’m sure this is a pointless debate because no matter what I say, anyone who is anti-smoking will dismiss them out of hand. Huh? The exact opposite is happening. Every time someone brings up one of the reasons you requested, you hand wave it away. One person even brought up a reason and you claimed it violated your civil rights. Suggesting a reason to quit in answer to your opening post certainly does not violate your civil rights. Someone getting in your face to complain that you stink does not take away your civil rights. > [@](#): > > 1. If I do explain it, it’s very difficult for a non-smoker to relate to it, or they’ll just assume another way is better for the same effect (when it’s not.) A lot of non-smokers used to smoke. It’s not that difficult to relate to it. You are not a unique snowflake. > [@](#): > > 1. The biggest benefit of smoking, in my opinion, is the same as a person I met on a plane once. He was Indian (from India,) but immigrated to the US when he was a child. He loves coffee, and he told me he drinks about a 2-3 32 oz cups per day. One thing he told me that didn’t make sense at the time (but is very relevant to this discussion): “Coffee is like magic. In the morning, it wakes me up. It gives me energy during the day. When it’s time to go to bed, it relaxes me.” Imho, this probably the best explanation for what I get from cigarettes: what I need, when I need it. If you want to delude yourself, feel free, but don’t expect us to go along with it, particularly when you asked us into this thread to give other reasons to quit aside from the obvious health reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/58 "2009-11-22T15:12:19Z")
Personally I’ve never smoked. OTOH all the usual arguments from us pious non-smokers really cut very little ice. My usual argument in favour of people smoking is that, in general, they aid the economy of the country by dying early, and unloading the economy of the need to care for them as they age. Anyway. A long term friend of mine has been a smoker though a couple of long periods. (No longer smokes.) His story of giving up was interesting. One night, with a few mates around, drinking, playing poker, and generally having a good time, he ran out of cigarettes. None of his friends smoked. He searched the house. None. None in any special reserve places. None in the car. Nothing. By now it was the early hours, and in a place and time long before 24 hour shops. He had to drive into the city at 5am to find one of the very few places that were open and buy some cigarettes. I think he actually had to convince one of his friends to drive him there. Once he bought the cigarettes he stopped, and thought about this. He decided that he was not having his life ruled in such a manner, and gave up that day. He didn’t smoke again for nearly 20 years. There is nothing very special about smoking. Nicotine addiction, a bit of flavour, and bit of ritual. As pointed out, coffee is not a lot different, just not a health issue, not so brutally addictive, and much the same cost. If you are prepared to ignore the health issues, and don’t care about the increasing social stigma, well, really there isn’t a lot left to care about. Personally I don’t think it is exactly smart, but it isn’t my problem either. If you have no dependants or loved ones that care when you die early or become seriously ill, well nobody else needs to care much either. Life is all about playing the odds. Nothing in life is certain, but sometimes you can stack the deck your way. Or you can stack it against yourself. The latter is much easier. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/59 "2009-11-22T15:18:24Z")
Health aside, smell aside, money aside…smoking tends to age people. You get tons of lines on your face, your lips lose their youthful pucker, and your skin turns yellow. I can always tell if a woman over 35 smokes. They tend to look as if they’ve lived hard lives out on the frontier somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434/60 "2009-11-22T15:31:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > They tend to look as if they’ve lived hard lives out on the frontier somewhere. That’s Malboro Country, show some respect. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-rationale-for-quitting-smoking/518434.md?page=4)