# The real reason why Hillary lost **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164 "2018-07-02T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/21 "2018-07-02T20:50:43Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Hillary did not receive the debate questions in advance. > > [Clinton Received Debate Questions Week Before Debate | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/clinton-received-debate-questions-week-before-debate/) Yes she did. The DNC was also in the tank for her over Sanders. How many links do you want and it the NY Times okay for a source indicating this happened? > **[CNN Parts Ways With Donna Brazile, a Hillary Clinton Supporter (Published 2016)](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donna-brazile-wikileaks-cnn.html)** > > The cable news network severed ties with Ms. Brazile, the Democratic strategist, after hacked emails showed that she shared questions before candidates’ events. > **[Donna Brazile is totally not sorry for leaking CNN debate questions to...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm_term=.380847b59c35)** > > Apparently, she's only sorry she got caught. > **[CNN drops Brazile for feeding debate questions to Clinton](https://nypost.com/2016/10/31/cnn-drops-brazile-for-feeding-debate-questions-to-clinton/)** > > WASHINGTON — CNN said Monday it’s “completely uncomfortable” with new leaked emails that Donna Brazile fed debate questions to Hillary Clinton and announced it has accepted her resignation as contr… ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/22 "2018-07-02T20:54:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …The irony of this thread is that a voter in Joplin, Missouri gets a bigger vote than a voter in New York City or Los Angeles. This system isn’t biased against Joplin; it’s biased against New York City and Los Angeles. You miss the point of the thread. It’s not that a Missouri voter has more influence than a New York voter…its that New York didn’t pay attention to what was fomenting out in Missouri. If the media had set up shop there, it would have been more obvious to them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/23 "2018-07-02T20:55:39Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Yes she did. The DNC was also in the tank for her over Sanders. How many links do you want and it the NY Times okay for a source indicating this happened? > [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donna-brazile-wikileaks-cnn.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donna-brazile-wikileaks-cnn.html) > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm\_term=.380847b59c35](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm_term=.380847b59c35) > > [CNN drops Brazile for feeding debate questions to Clinton](https://nypost.com/2016/10/31/cnn-drops-brazile-for-feeding-debate-questions-to-clinton/) None of those links say anything about Clinton receiving any information about questions in the general election debates. You made yet another incorrect assertion, probably because you’re relying on media outlets that support Trump and routinely disregard the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/24 "2018-07-02T21:16:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > None of those links say anything about Clinton receiving any information about questions in the general election debates. You made yet another incorrect assertion, probably because you’re relying on media outlets that support Trump and routinely disregard the facts. Good grief… > [@](#): > > ``` > In the first instance, ahead of a March 13 CNN town hall, it appears that guest-moderator Roland Martin from TV One may have shared his contributions to the questions with Brazile. In an email the day before the town hall to senior Clinton staffers, Brazile wrote: “From time to time I get the questions in advance” and included the text of a question about the death penalty. An email later obtained by POLITICO showed that the text of the question Brazile sent to the Clinton campaign was identical to a proposed question Martin had offered CNN. (A similar, though not identical question, was ultimately posed to Clinton at the town hall). > > The Martin connection was seemingly cemented when WikiLeaks published more of that thread, featuring a newly released reply in which Brazile promises to send additional questions. > > “I’ll send a few more,” Brazile wrote, adding, “Though some questions Roland submitted.” > > Martin initially denied sharing his questions with anyone, but later said his executive producer and team at TV One had the questions in order to pass them on to the CNN team. Once POLITICO obtained further emails, Martin said he didn’t believe he consulted with Brazile about the questions. Martin did not return a request for comment. > > ``` > > SOURCE: [Donna Brazile Leaves CNN After Leaks Reveal Campaign Collusion | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donna-brazile-leaves-cnn/) You used Snopes for your cite so I will assume Snopes is ok with you for this one too. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/25 "2018-07-02T21:22:47Z")
I’m sure you know the difference between the primary debates and the general election debates. And, quite frankly, except for one or two ‘gotcha!’ or silly questions, every candidate should already know the range of questions to expect in any debate. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/26 "2018-07-02T21:28:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Good grief… > > You used Snopes for your cite so I will assume Snopes is ok with you for this one too. And you apparently ignored the final part: Donna Brazile’s firing from CNN caused some confusion due to a previous fabricated news story asserting Clinton had been supplied questions one week in advance of the first presidential debate between the former Secretary of State and Donald Trump on 26 September 2016. Although Brazile was implicated in supplying the campaign with information ahead of Clinton’s appearances, that issue pertained only to March 2016 ( **during the Democratic primary, not the general election campaign** ) and involved CNN (not NBC), a campaign against Bernie Sanders (not Donald Trump), and a debate held on 6 March 2016 (not 26 September 2016). I have taken the liberty of bolding the part that makes **iiandyiiii** correct in his statement. And I also note that he and **dalej42** are different posters. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/27 "2018-07-02T21:47:41Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I’m sure you know the difference between the primary debates and the general election debates. Your post did not specify general or primary debate questions. Your cite was about the general, mine about the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/28 "2018-07-02T21:51:03Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And you apparently ignored the final part: I did not ignore anything. If **iiandyiiii** wants to be very specific to gloss over Clinton receiving questions during the primary then fine. But I would submit it makes it a heck of a lot easier for people to buy the fake news about receiving questions during the general when we know she did receive questions during the primary and overall helps cement people’s distrust of her. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/29 "2018-07-02T22:01:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I did not ignore anything. > > If **iiandyiiii** wants to be very specific to gloss over Clinton receiving questions during the primary then fine. But I would submit it makes it a heck of a lot easier for people to buy the fake news about receiving questions during the general when we know she did receive questions during the primary and overall helps cement people’s distrust of her. Read my post again – I specified the general election. I didn’t gloss over anything, since this thread is about why Hillary Clinton lost the general election, not why she won the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/30 "2018-07-02T22:09:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Read my post again – I specified the general election. I didn’t gloss over anything, since this thread is about why Hillary Clinton lost the general election, not why she won the primary. I conflated your and **dalej42’s** posts so sorry about that. And I explained that I think her receiving questions in the primary makes it much easier for people to believe she did it again in the general. It’s not like people forgot the campaign or reset their opinions when the primaries ended and the general began. What she did in the primaries matters in the general too. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/31 "2018-07-02T22:12:01Z")
The reason Clinton lost is due to a quirk in the US election system. One might even call it a flaw. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/32 "2018-07-02T22:17:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I conflated your and **dalej42’s** posts so sorry about that. > > And I explained that I think her receiving questions in the primary makes it much easier for people to believe she did it again in the general. It’s not like people forgot the campaign or reset their opinions when the primaries ended and the general began. What she did in the primaries matters in the general too. It was dumb of the DNC to pretty much openly favor Clinton’s campaign. It was even dumber of them to do it so incompetently, and entirely fail to hide this fact. If it hadn’t been for the DNC’s incompetence, Clinton might have (IMO) won the primary by a larger margin, and without the ire of Sanders’ supporters. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/33 "2018-07-03T04:49:45Z")
I think Hillary lost because of a few big things and a few apparently little things, which doomed her long before 2016: [ul] [li]She was seen as corrupt. Whitewater really was hinky, back in the day. She had adopted a new constituency in New York State in the Bloomberg billionaire era, and in the primary campaign, it sounded like it was to get Wall Street money for her ambitions.[/li][li]She was seen as untrustworthy. She had flipped away from progressive positions for reasons that might be “pragmatic” but looked like she was following the money, more than once.[/li][li]She not only voted to allow the 2003 invasion of Iraq; she was very, very cosy with terrorists and warmongers like Dubya and Kissinger.[/li][li]She was, incidentally, still married to the oaf. Bubba may not be grabbing women so much now, but he probably still would have been an embarrassment waiting to happen.[/li][li]She and the oaf had had their bite of the apple, and were not so awesome the first time around that they could convince us that they deserved twice as much time in the White House as is the norm.[/li][li]And most of us didn’t even vote for them the first time! We weren’t dying to finally vote for a Clinton, either.[/li][/ul] There are other factors. Some people probably did believe conspiracy theories about Huma, or hate voting for a woman as commander-in-chief. And certainly there was a lot of nasty anti-Clinton propaganda. Like the OP, I wish the DNC had actually come out to the central USA. I wish they had found out just how unpopular she was, and how unlikely it was that HRC could effectively lead the party. A Hillary victory, if somehow she’d pulled it out, would have been followed by GOP victories in many, many offices. She was well-demonized by 2016, and simply being in “her” party would hurt Democratic candidates. (In hindsight, one good thing about that last point is that if the Democratic brand became complete poison, that might have accelerated the rise of left-independents and moderate Republicans across the country.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/34 "2018-07-03T04:57:50Z")
Electorates are not vending machines in which you can put million-dollar ad buys and get back enthusiastic majorities. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/35 "2018-07-03T04:58:35Z")
God, not this shit again. Another Bernie v. Hillary redux. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/36 "2018-07-03T05:00:32Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Electorates are not vending machines in which you can put million-dollar ad buys and get back enthusiastic majorities. I wish all the people who whine about _Citizens United_ were aware of this fact. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/37 "2018-07-03T05:31:56Z")
I didn’t say that propaganda has no effect. But one’s own campaign does not exist in a vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/38 "2018-07-03T13:21:16Z")
I was pretty sure (incorrectly, alas) that Clinton was going to win, too. But I still turned out to vote. Because her winning wouldn’t have been enough. We needed for her to absolutely destroy Trump. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/39 "2018-07-03T13:54:46Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Yes she did. The DNC was also in the tank for her over Sanders. How many links do you want and it the NY Times okay for a source indicating this happened? > [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donna-brazile-wikileaks-cnn.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/donna-brazile-wikileaks-cnn.html) > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm\_term=.380847b59c35](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/07/donna-brazile-is-totally-not-sorry-for-leaking-cnn-debate-questions-to-hillary-clinton/?utm_term=.380847b59c35) > > [CNN drops Brazile for feeding debate questions to Clinton](https://nypost.com/2016/10/31/cnn-drops-brazile-for-feeding-debate-questions-to-clinton/) Silver Lining said: “She was also giving the debate questions in advance by CNN, yet she lost.” Several cites were provided about this statement. After reading those and a few other sources, Silver Lining is just plain wrong. Clinton got at least one question from the interim DNC chair, who was working for CNN part-time on the Democratic debate, that was asked at a Democratic primary debate. Clinton, as everyone knows, won the Democratic primary. Silver Lining referred to debate questions that were part of the general election, the election “she lost”. That accusation was clearly shown to be false in the Snopes article-which explicitly differentiated the accusation from the Democratic debate. Silver Lining is talking about one debate while making an accusation based on another debate. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/40 "2018-07-03T14:03:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Good grief… > > You used Snopes for your cite so I will assume Snopes is ok with you for this one too. To finish the quoting of that Snopes article: “Although Brazile was implicated in supplying the campaign with information ahead of Clinton’s appearances, that issue pertained only to March 2016 (during the Democratic primary, not the general election campaign) and involved CNN (not NBC), a campaign against Bernie Sanders (not Donald Trump), and a debate held on 6 March 2016 (not 26 September 2016).” No one should claim that Clinton received any general election debate questions in advance. That Brazile was involved in disreputable actions in support of Clinton is beyond dispute but those actions were only related to the primary debates, not the general election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164.md?page=3)