# The real reason why Hillary lost **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164 "2018-07-02T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/103 "2018-07-05T00:22:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But how is Sanders’ change in approach \*her \*fault (except in the sense that, to some, everything was)? How could she effectively counteract a personality campaign except by sticking to the issues and her record, which is what she did? The fault that I’m pointing out is that she, her staff, and her best supporters utterly failed to treat as a giant red flag her almost losing to a ‘not really even a Democrat’ in spite of having the deck stacked in her favor by the party for nomination since 2015. She should have stopped all of the “It’s her turn” nonsense and taken the possibility of losing to Trump seriously when she was barely able to win against a guy who shouldn’t have been a serious contender with the Democratic Party trying to hand her the nomination. Instead she and her staff kept treating the election process like a formality instead of a close-run fight. The flaws in her campaign (like focusing on her ‘record’ as though it’s a positive thing) were legion, but have been talked about enough in past threads that I’m certainly not going to talk about them here. Trying to blame Sanders for her awful campaign strategy is pretty absurd, though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/104 "2018-07-05T00:44:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Went to his head? As opposed to Her Inevitableness, who thought the Oval Office was hers for the taking, and all she had to do was pick it up off the sliver platter? It is to laugh. Still bitter, aren’t we? If you \*still \*aren’t aware of her platform or record, or Sanders’ general lack of same, that’s too bad but it’s not anyone else’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/105 "2018-07-05T01:14:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Still bitter, aren’t we? > > If you \*still \*aren’t aware of her platform or record, or Sanders’ general lack of same, that’s too bad but it’s not anyone else’s fault. She had an ego too. I don’t blame her for it; she’s human. But her ego was just as big as Sanders, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/106 "2018-07-05T05:41:22Z")
apathy ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/107 "2018-07-05T12:03:19Z")
Bingo. Frustration and alienation lead to it, but that’s the result. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But her ego was just as big as Sanders, IMO. If you have the record to back it up, is it still ego? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/108 "2018-07-05T13:24:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > She had an ego too. I don’t blame her for it; she’s human. But her ego was just as big as Sanders, IMO. As you said earlier, calling out someone running for president as having a big ego is like calling the sky blue. I takes a lot of audacity to think you have a hope of a chance of winning. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/109 "2018-07-05T13:43:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Bingo. Frustration and alienation lead to it, but that’s the result. > > If you have the record to back it up, is it still ego? Yes, it is. Some ego is normal and even necessary to be successful. At times it can get in the way if someone is undisciplined. ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/110 "2018-07-05T13:44:54Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > I would love to. I would LOVE to vote for a candidate that didn’t lie and didn’t cheat. But in the 2016 presidential election we weren’t given that choice. Sigh, for the good old days-if they ever existed. I think that sums it up. It was not so much that people voted for Trump, more that a great many people simply refused to vote for Hillary. Bernie Sanders was not the issue, he never made it to becoming the official Dem candidate. The obvious question: if Bernie Sanders had been put up against Our Donald, could he have won? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/111 "2018-07-05T13:48:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, it is. Some ego is normal and even necessary to be successful. At times it can get in the way if someone is undisciplined. I think we agree on that last point. But you’re avoiding the central one - ego can be because of, and necessary to, actual accomplishment and qualifications, or it can be ego for its own sake. They’re not the same and bothsidesism does not apply. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/112 "2018-07-05T14:15:18Z")
Yes, Hillary could have used a bit more discipline instead of letting her ego get in the way. On that, I can agree! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/113 "2018-07-05T14:22:51Z")
I think we both know, **John**. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/114 "2018-07-05T14:32:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You missed my point. I would not suggest that Hillary was thwarted in acting upon a clear mandate because three million votes is not enough for that. Of course, losing by three million is even less so. > > The Trumpists have demonstrated a clear and relentless determination to undo as much progress as they can get their grubby mitts on. But how can they claim the right to do so, how can they claim that the voice of the people is solidly behind them? As it stands, they take a winner take all approach until they lose, then they realize the value of compromise and accommodation. > > Even a fetid pile of goon bait like Trump recognizes the validating power of the popular vote, he even went to the trouble to lie about it. Ok, I see it now. It was a victory, but not a mandate. It wouldn’t have been for her a Trump’s victory is certainly less of a mandate. > [@pohjonen](#): > > She lost because she had more baggage than the Andrea Doria. > (snipped) I’m going to steal this phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/115 "2018-07-05T16:40:39Z")
Can we steer this back to the OP? I think it’s a very valid view that media organizations are not operational in small towns. We are currently undergoing a drastic shift in _where_ media jobs are located as newspapers and other companies cut back, lay off, and shut down in smaller areas. The reason for this is the absolute devastation being wreaked on ad-dependent companies by Google and Facebook over the past decade, but the why doesn’t really matter – it’s the fact that all these small sources of verifiable reporting have vanished and so no longer bubble up to the big time media companies. This tectonic shift happened so swiftly that many reporters and news organizations failed to realize the full implications of losing all those small- and medium-sized news producers. That said, I am _still_ amazed that so many American commentators fail to realize that Hillary Clinton was always going to face an uphill battle simply because she’s a woman. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/116 "2018-07-05T16:58:43Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > I think it’s a very valid view that media organizations are not operational in small towns. We are currently undergoing a drastic shift in _where_ media jobs are located as newspapers and other companies cut back, lay off, and shut down in smaller areas. True, but the loss of markets by dead tree outlet to television and the Internet is nationwide, not a rural thing, and has been going on for decades. Electronic media have penetration into low-population markets too,\* and always have\*. Somebody in Lower Trumpistan has as much ability to watch MSNBC as anyone else, and somebody in Berkeley can watch Fox all day if they want. The difference in political mindset is exposure to other kinds of people and other views, and to facts as well as propaganda. That comes in large part just from living where those things can be found more easily, and going out and finding them, even if it just requires changing channels once in a while. The dichotomy is, ISTM, being intellectually active instead of passive, and thinking critically instead of tribally. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/117 "2018-07-05T20:25:55Z")
[quote=“ElvisL1ves, post:116, topic:817164”] True, but the loss of markets by dead tree outlet to television and the Internet is nationwide, not a rural thing, and has been going on for decades. /QUOTE] Yeah, but TV stations don’t cover small markets very well. It requires a higher staff-to-coverage ratio to produce news for TV, and stations generally have fewer staff than newspapers to begin with. You can produce a small town weekly newspaper with one frantic reporter, one editor/publisher, and a sales person. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/118 "2018-07-05T21:44:53Z")
Outsider candidates like governors normally do very well in presidential runs. And Trump was even more of an outsider being a non politician. And he was a reality TV star for quite a while too. both of those factors to me were very big for him. ---
**Author:** ![CelticKnot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celticknot/32/3392_2.png) [@CelticKnot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CelticKnot)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/119 "2018-07-06T15:29:04Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The reason Clinton lost is due to a quirk in the US election system. One might even call it a flaw. It only seems to be a flaw when our side loses. > [@Delicious](#): > > Well you got up at 5, but how long did it take you to get all the way down from your ivory tower? SDMB needs a thumbs up function > [@Brayne\_Ded](#): > > I think that sums it up. It was not so much that people voted for Trump, more that a great many people simply refused to vote for Hillary. Bernie Sanders was not the issue, he never made it to becoming the official Dem candidate. > > The obvious question: if Bernie Sanders had been put up against Our Donald, could he have won? IDK, it’s hard to be taken seriously as a Socialist when your socio-economic status is so far above average. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/120 "2018-07-06T15:43:13Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > It only seems to be a flaw when our side loses… Memory fails. When was that, when the Dems won the Electoral, but lost the popular, and crowed about their “victory”? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/121 "2018-07-06T15:47:53Z")
> [@CelticKnot](#): > > IDK, it’s hard to be taken seriously as a Socialist when your socio-economic status is so far above average. Trump campaigned as populist, hands-on, ‘man of the people’ despite basically being Caligula but with more lowbrow tastes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164/122 "2018-07-06T16:36:04Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Memory fails. When was that, when the Dems won the Electoral, but lost the popular, and crowed about their “victory”? John Quincy Adams, 1824. The EC is set up so the more rural, more homogenic, less educated states have outsized power, whichever party names are associated with them. “We” are never going to win the EC while losing the vote of We the People. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-reason-why-hillary-lost/817164.md?page=7)