# The real tragedy of Michael Jackson's death is ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 6, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051 "2009-07-06T05:58:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/1 "2009-07-06T05:58:52Z")
… or rather, the real tragedies are: 1/ we will be subjected to renewed assaults from his “musical legacy” for the foreseeable future 2/ the musical taste of whole new generations will be despoiled; his stuff is like #3 or something on the charts right now 3/ worst of all, [_there’s an endless supply of more of his “music” in the Jackson vaults_](http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/jackson-unreleased/2009/07/06/1246732269306.html) ! This stuff is going to dribble out for the rest of our miserable lives like pus from an untreated wound. Lock up your radios. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/2 "2009-07-06T06:02:40Z")
Even if you don’t like his stuff, is it any worse than what is currently topping the Billboard charts? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/3 "2009-07-06T06:49:50Z")
… it wasn’t a very painful, slow and horrible demise brought on by multiple STDs contracted in prison from very brutal, nasty, viscious men over a long period of time. What? Too soon? C’mon, people! He was a Pedophile! His fame/money allowed him to “buy his way” out of conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/4 "2009-07-06T07:15:36Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > C’mon, people! He was a Pedophile! His fame/money allowed him to “buy his way” out of conviction. And your supporting evidence is… ? ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/5 "2009-07-06T07:25:06Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And your supporting evidence is… ? Evidence of what? That he was a pedophile? Are you whooshing? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/6 "2009-07-06T07:33:40Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Evidence of what? That he was a pedophile? Are you whooshing? I thought I quoted the relevant section. Do I need to read it aloud to you? He makes a pretty bold claim - implying he was guilty of the charges brought against him and the only reason he wasn’t convicted was because of his fame. Evidence supporting that claim would be incredibly valuable, so I am forced to assume **Gatopescado** is privy to this information that the rest of us are not and is merely holding it back to sell to NBC for the big exposé. If it were otherwise he would just be talking out of his ass and basing his statements of fact on his personal perceptions and prejudices. But that wouldn’t be very SDMB-like, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/7 "2009-07-06T07:37:53Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > And your supporting evidence is… ? That he wasn’t convicted. This just in: O.J. \*still \*hasn’t found real killer! Vince Neil drives to local 7-11 for Big-Gulp! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/8 "2009-07-06T07:49:02Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > If it were otherwise he would just be talking out of his ass and basing his statements of fact on his personal perceptions and prejudices. But that wouldn’t be very SDMB-like, would it? Well, sure it would! Oh, didn’t you hear? We don’t haffa pay no mo’ to post! My behind can spout all it wanna! **Rig** , I liked your contributions to this board… ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/9 "2009-07-06T08:25:57Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > That he wasn’t convicted. > > This just in: O.J. \*still \*hasn’t found real killer! Vince Neil drives to local 7-11 for Big-Gulp! Goodness. I don’t keep track of the law _too_ much but it apparently became incredibly complex last night whilst I slept. The proof of someone’s guilt is now that they weren’t proved guilty. Sheesh, that’s a helluva burden to overcome. I suppose, using similar logic, I can show that he wasn’t a pedophile by showing you the thousands of video clips of him with children while he, so it would seem from the videos over the years, wasn’t then molesting any of them. I love negative proof. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/10 "2009-07-06T08:36:59Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > The proof of someone’s guilt is now that they weren’t proved guilty. Sheesh, that’s a helluva burden to overcome. I like to set the bar high. No slack for slackers! Don’t think Mikey liked the Little Fellas? They have a bus for you, with a tight turning radius. Think he did, and give him a pass? Get under that bus. ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/11 "2009-07-06T08:44:54Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I like to set the bar high. No slack for slackers! > > Don’t think Mikey liked the Little Fellas? They have a bus for you, with a tight turning radius. Think he did, and give him a pass? Get under that bus. Such buses do indeed exist outside of the States. Just because we don’t make smart buses because we don’t have to because of how spacious our country is doesn’t mean other countries don’t. Incidentally, it’s worth noting that your entire line of discussion is on “belief”, but is noticeably devoid of _any_ evidence. One might argue this is why he was acquitted, which doesn’t imply innocence, only that there’s an insufficient amount of evidence to prove the assertion. For you, in this thread, assertion is sufficient. So is a negative assertion: he was found not guilty; therefore, he’s guilty! ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/12 "2009-07-06T08:51:36Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Don’t think Mikey liked the Little Fellas? They have a bus for you, with a tight turning radius. Think he did, and give him a pass? Get under that bus. The truth is: I don’t know. I don’t know what happened behind closed doors at his ranch, and neither you nor I will ever know. The only ones who do know for certain are the alleged victims. And of course Michael, who is dead. All I know is that the evidence wasn’t there to convict him. You seem to think that money and fame are an automatic get-out-of-jail-free pass, but I do not find that to be a correct assessment (I really don’t want to rehash OJ here though). I find it unfortunate that all it takes is an accusation to brand someone forever as a criminal in the public eye, regardless of the findings of a court operating with due process. I also find it unfortunate that I have disappointed you with my latest contribution, as I believe I acted in the spirit of rationality. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/13 "2009-07-06T08:58:41Z")
> [@ashman165](#): > > Such buses do indeed exist outside of the States. Just because we don’t make smart buses because we don’t have to because of how spacious our country is doesn’t mean other countries don’t. Wait a minute! Are you from Florida!?! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/14 "2009-07-06T09:04:37Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > You seem to think that money and fame are an automatic get-out-of-jail-free pass, but I do not find that to be a correct assessment This is the Crux of My Buiscuit. > [@Rigamarole](#): > > I also find it unfortunate that I have disappointed you with my latest contribution, as I believe I acted in the spirit of rationality. Eh, I still think you are Okay! Its just that ratiionality has nothing to do with pedophiles and beer-drinkers! (I’m the beer-drinker) ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/15 "2009-07-06T10:02:02Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Wait a minute! > > Are you from Florida!?! No, but I did lecture there one summer. Never again, never again. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/16 "2009-07-06T10:13:39Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > … or rather, the real tragedies are: > > 1/ we will be subjected to renewed assaults from his “musical legacy” for the foreseeable future If we can keep hearing songs like “Beat It,” “Thriller,” “Billy Jean,” and, to a lesser extent, “Black or White” then I think we’re doing pretty good. So far as pop music goes Jackson was pretty damned good. > [@](#): > > 2/ the musical taste of whole new generations will be despoiled; his stuff is like #3 or something on the charts right now There’s nothing wrong with liking Michael Jackson’s music. He was extremely talented even if Thriller was the height. Most musical acts couldn’t even hope to approach Jackson’s “mediocre” work like HIStory. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Sablicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Sablicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sablicious)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/17 "2009-07-06T12:17:35Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > … or rather, the real tragedies are: > > 1/ we will be subjected to renewed assaults from his “musical legacy” for the foreseeable future His stuff’s seminal. It’s statistically highly improbable to **not like** some of what he did. Or at least, something that was influenced by him… surely? 😕 > [@](#): > > 2/ the musical taste of whole new generations will be despoiled; his stuff is like #3 or something on the charts right now If so, it’s hardly any great loss. What would you rather: hackneyed rehashes of his stuff and the like at higher BPM -or- the versions that actually have some relevance beyond an excuse to drop an MDMA devoid Ecstasy tablet? \<\_\< > [@](#): > > 3/ worst of all, [_there’s an endless supply of more of his “music” in the Jackson vaults_](http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/jackson-unreleased/2009/07/06/1246732269306.html) ! This stuff is going to dribble out for the rest of our miserable lives like pus from an untreated wound. Lock up your radios. This we do see eye to eye on. I mean, if his more recent caterwauling is anything to go by, I’d much rather the ‘vault’ stay firmly shut! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/18 "2009-07-06T12:59:08Z")
> [@Sablicious](#): > > His stuff’s seminal. It’s statistically highly improbable to **not like** some of what he did. Or at least, something that was influenced by him… surely? 😕 Count me and Askance as apparently among the statistical outliers (Okay, _Off the Wall_ has a trace of funk in it, so it’s not THAT bad.) To answer the OP, IMHO the real tragedy seems to be that not enough folks are questioning why MJ seemed to try so hard to flee from the (perfectly beautiful) face he was given. The silence is especially deafening from those who see MJ as representing the black community from which, through his elective surgeries, he fled. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/19 "2009-07-06T13:22:57Z")
Michael Jackson is the 38th most acclaimed artist of all time, according to music critics. (cite: [acclaimedmusic.net](http://acclaimedmusic.net)) And I suppose it is compared to (not in the top 2500) Lady Gaga, or whatever they normally play on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051/20 "2009-07-06T15:20:25Z")
What baffles me are these astronomical sales figures. These recordings were available before he died, people! What makes it more urgent to get them now? What makes them more valuable now? It’s not like anyone’s taking them off the market. Seriously, I’m stumped. back to the tragedy talk - I think what he did to his face is a tragedy. I think not coming to terms with being gay is a tragedy. I think grown men sleeping with little boys is criminal. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-real-tragedy-of-michael-jacksons-death-is/502051.md?page=2)