# The Really Big Questions Don't Matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463 "2011-09-16T02:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/21 "2011-09-16T11:59:37Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I think the more interesting issue is: with those Big Questions, is there an underlying, objective fact of the matter that we only need to find out? And what if there isn’t? > > Take abortion, for instance. Is it the case that there exists an objective moral judgement attached to it? Is it objectively either right or wrong to terminate a pregnancy, and we just have to find out which one it is? Or is it the case that moral judgements are created, rather than discovered? > > If there is such an objective judgement, it seems clear that we need to continue debating until we manage to find it – perhaps eventually, somebody comes up with the true killer argument that makes the other side falter and acknowledge the superiority of we all secretly already think we have. Then, the debate will eventually come to an end, with the discovery of a truth. No it won’t. First, the anti-abortion side is neither honest or rational; it would and does not acknowledge either facts or logic against its position. Second, your scenario is a false dilemma; if one side can be proven wrong and the other isn’t, then the one that isn’t disproven wins even though it was never objectively proven correct. And again; we are not speaking of two intellectually and morally equal positions here; we are talking about a baseless, irrational and blatantly cruel anti-choice position against a pro-choice position that is based on reality and has plenty of moral justification. If you want to come up with an example of a debate where one side isn’t obviously right and the other isn’t obviously wrong, this and the Iraq War aren’t one of them. On the contrary, these are some of the more one sided debates you’ll find. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/22 "2011-09-16T12:05:19Z")
I would submit that the fact that this thread has turned into an abortion debate has advanced the hypothesis of the OP. The debate can rage for 9 pages and minds will not be changed. If it was a smaller issue, then perhaps an agreement could be reached. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/23 "2011-09-16T12:11:59Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I would submit that the fact that this thread has turned into an abortion debate has advanced the hypothesis of the OP. The debate can rage for 9 pages and minds will not be changed. If it was a smaller issue, then perhaps an agreement could be reached. I has nothing to do with the size of the issue, and everything to do with the anti-choice side being irrational at best. You _cannot_ convince someone who is simply determined to not be convinced, or who doesn’t even take his or her own position seriously and is just using it as an excuse. This is true whether the issue is abortion or whose turn it is to do the dishes. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/24 "2011-09-16T12:14:07Z")
I wasn’t talking about abortion – I used it merely as a place-holder because it was used in the OP as well. Substitute the legitimacy of war in Iraq, gun rights, death penalty, or just abstract to ‘issue A’ or something as you see fit – try choosing something, perhaps, that you don’t have strong feelings about, but others may have, in order not to stray from the point. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/25 "2011-09-16T13:01:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > we should just pick a direction and move on. Right! I win, let’s move on. > [@](#): > > We should instead be spending our time on the smaller clear cut decisions which we often ignore or neglect because they seem small. Except they’re not any more clear cut than the big issues, as evidenced by the multi-page raging debates here on relatively inconsequential topics, such as the efficacy of reiki or whether Jesus had hemorrhoids. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/26 "2011-09-16T13:13:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Expect that “really strong arguments” can’t be made for both sides. The anti-abortion and pro-Iraq war positions are based on bad arguments and lies, as well as outright greed & malice respectively. They are both _one sided_ arguments where the “left wing” positions are clearly superior both morally and factually. > > For that matter; the Right in this country has become so collectively corrupt and psychotic that for pretty much _any_ argument the Left Wing position is going to be stronger, simply because the Right Wing position is so far off the deep end. The positions of the modern Right are virtually always unethical and dishonest, and usually outright delusional or ignorant. A great example of the completely cosed minds. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/27 "2011-09-16T13:29:33Z")
Part of the arguing process is exchanging information and looking at the Big issue from different angles. Complex issues require more of this than simple issues. For example, should we have invaded Iraq? Many reasons for, many reasons against, many different people involved, some of whom will benefit and some who will lose. We should have debated this issue much more than we did, not less. The OP is aguing for inaction in any situation where easy agreement can’t be reached. My family would never go out to dinner in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/28 "2011-09-16T13:40:10Z")
There are other issues where there are weighty and valid arguments on either side. For example, _should we build a tidal energy dam across the mouth of the river Severn?_ On the on hand, it’s a potentially massive source of green energy, but on the other hand, it could have major environmental and commercial impacts. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/29 "2011-09-16T13:51:18Z")
I agree with the OP, what is the issue and challenge is not to get caught up in those, which just waste energy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/30 "2011-09-16T14:04:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I would submit that the fact that this thread has turned into an abortion debate has advanced the hypothesis of the OP. The debate can rage for 9 pages and minds will not be changed. If it was a smaller issue, then perhaps an agreement could be reached. It’s not so much the size of the issue, as it is the simplicity of the issue. You argue for 9 pages, what do you think the chances are that someone says “Gee, I hadn’t thought of it that way.” It seems like everyone arguing has a closed mind and is unwilling to consider the other guy, but the reality is that they likely have all the necessary information to make a decision, and have decided. All the arguments are is repeating the information they already have, as if they’ve never heard it before. With a smaller issue, the best you get is one side giving up because it’s not important enough to keep arguing about, they’re not really agreeing. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/31 "2011-09-16T14:57:40Z")
Aw, I thought the OP was going to suggest something like what IOZ talks about [here](http://whoisioz.blogspot.com/2010/04/home-economics.html): > [@](#): > > I appreciate the perception that I am a mere nihilist. Politically, I am. Yet I find myself, generally, much happier than my more politically earnest acquaintances, for whom the vast, inhuman movement of history and their own insignificance in the face of it necessitate a life-skein of endless disappointments and let-downs. Me, instead of contributing to some asshole’s brand-name political campaign, I’ll spend a hundred bucks on booze. A good Beaune-Village is worth a thousand Obamas. The smell of baking bread is better than the vote. Or: > [@](#): > > Participation in the maintenance of a political order is a sucker’s game. It’s a beautiful day in Pennsylvania. Go outside. The sun doesn’t give a damn who’s president. But instead… > [@Scylla](#): > > The fact that very strong arguments can be made in both cases suggests that the expected marginal superiority of one argument versus the other is going to be minimal. This is only true if you have the privilege to not be affected by the issue at all. Like, if you’re an Iraqi, or a U.S. service member, or a weapons company, then the “expected marginal superiority” of one or the other decision is _kinda important_. It’s intellectual masturbation either way though. Let’s say everyone on the internet agreed that Iraq was bad and the U.S. should stop bombing people with robots. OK, and? It doeskin mean anything. There’s no influence. Our betters don’t give a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/32 "2011-09-16T14:58:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s not so much the size of the issue, as it is the simplicity of the issue. You argue for 9 pages, what do you think the chances are that someone says “Gee, I hadn’t thought of it that way.” It seems like everyone arguing has a closed mind and is unwilling to consider the other guy, but the reality is that they likely have all the necessary information to make a decision, and have decided. All the arguments are is repeating the information they already have, as if they’ve never heard it before. Yeah, but fuck those guys. I’m hoping that some curious but undecided observer who’s been reading the argument will realize my position is more sound. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/33 "2011-09-16T15:17:30Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I heard an interesting viewpoint. The viewpoint contends that the really big questions that we fight about and debate don’t matter at all. > > Abortion, pro-life or pro-choice? > Should we have invaded Iraq? > > Things like that. I’m talking about the questions that get the really heated debate on both sides, the kind we torture ourselves over. > > They simply don’t matter. > > Here’s why: > > The fact that very strong arguments can be made in both cases suggests that the expected marginal superiority of one argument versus the other is going to be minimal. > > Therefore we shouldn’t waste our time torturing ourselves about them we should just pick a direction and move on. > > We should instead be spending our time on the smaller clear cut decisions which we often ignore or neglect because they seem small. > > This philosophy applies both to countries and individuals. > > Right or wrong? I don’t know that you can say there were really good reason for invading Iraq. But maybe I’m biased because I was dead set against it from the beginning. So, if I were to accept the premise (hard to do, but let’s pretend), then it’s still a good idea to debate exactly when and how the invasion will take place, and what we will do afterwards. Those are still “big questions”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/34 "2011-09-16T17:18:33Z")
Der already did a solid job of this, but just so you know my particular stance: > [@Blake](#): > > Seriously? Yes. > [@](#): > > The single most common argument against abortion is that it is murder and everyone agrees that you shouldn’t be able to commit murder because the victim inconveniences you. Why is killing a fetus murder? The only reason to call it murder is that you think it has a soul (which is a bald assertion of a supernatural element with no evidence for it) or that it will become a thinking human. Worrying about what something may be, when it is not yet that thing is sentimentality. Looking at an acorn and getting misty-eyed about the majestic oak tree it will someday be is sentimentality. > [@](#): > > There is no sentimentality or assertion of souls or supernatural entities whatsoever in that argument, and it is the single most common argument against abortion. If you put “arguments against abortion” into Google, all the results on the first page list that as the prime argument against abortion. It’s obvious you didn’t take a moment to understand what I said before composing your response. > [@](#): > > So if you have never heard this argument you aren’t exactly doing heavy lifting. Hardly. > [@](#): > > Of course we can \*challenge \*this argument, but to assert that every single argument relies on sentimentality and the supernatural displays the grossest ignorance of the actual arguments presented by right-to-lifers. I find that degree of ignorance particularly ironic when it’s presented in a post that accuses other people of not doing sufficient work in researching the arguments. I know the argument. Which is why I’m on solid ground pointing out how it’s nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/35 "2011-09-16T17:31:31Z")
I’d be interested to know where the OP encountered this viewpoint. Can’t help wondering if the person or group who espoused it perhaps hoped the coin flip would settle half the debates in their favour, and intended not to drop the others. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/36 "2011-09-16T17:36:11Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’d be interested to know where the OP encountered this viewpoint. Can’t help wondering if the person or group who espoused it perhaps hoped the coin flip would settle half the debates in their favour, and intended not to drop the others. I suspect this idea is most attractive to someone who knows their position isn’t strong. If you have to stretch and flail around to find an argument that supports your position a coin-flip (and 50% chance of success) must seem like a boon. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/37 "2011-09-16T18:24:12Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > A great example of the completely cosed minds. No; an example of living n a country where the political right has _demonstrably_ gone off the deep end, and neither means well nor has much of a connection to reality in its political positions. Insisting that the right wing position _must_ be a reasonable one doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/38 "2011-09-16T18:42:01Z")
I couldn’t more strongly disagree with the OP. There are strong arguments on both sides of a lot of issues but it doesn’t mean they’re not worth fighting over. Hell, the very first reply mentions slavery. There are a lot of “strong” arguments in favor of it, like economy and state’s rights, even a lot of abolitionists didn’t think that blacks were equals to whites, they just didn’t think they deserved to be slaves. That doesn’t mean that those arguing in favor of weren’t ultimately about as wrong as one can from a moral perspective. Or more directly, the reason that people have strong opinions on these matters is because they value different things to different degrees. So, now, we as a society have come to the realization that the moral evil that is slavery far outweighs any of its supposed benefits, but someone who doesn’t agree isn’t wrong in the same sense that one is wrong about a scientific or mathematical hypothesis. We see the same thing with abortion. People paint the other side as being mysogynist or murderers, but the crux of the issue is the balance of life vs. free-will in rather extreme juxtaposition of those concepts. A person isn’t objectively wrong for valuing one over the other, but they will be perceived that way by someone who holds a particular view about those relative values and once society as a whole comes to settle on the issue, then it will look as ridiculous as some of the past situations that were contentious in their times but obnoxious in hindsight. But really, I guess the point is that these issues that come up are really just symptoms of a larger disharmony in society. It’s sort of like how, for instance, in a relationship how one forgetting to put the milk away can quickly devolve into accusations like “you always forget” and other silly things, because the real crux of the discussion is on a deeper issue that those involved may not be consciously aware of. And so, similarly, these issues arise and similar accusations come, but if we can actually drill down to the fundamental issue at hand and settle that, things will change. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/39 "2011-09-16T18:44:03Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The fact that very strong arguments can be made in both cases suggests that the expected marginal superiority of one argument versus the other is going to be minimal. > > Right or wrong? Two equally defended positions need not be equally true, their proponents equally informed, or consequences equally practical. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/40 "2011-09-16T18:49:17Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Should I start a poll asking how many of us have ever changed their mind on one of those questions? > > I would rather spend my time on dog forums where there people looking for help and may accept my answer. Tons of agenda driven people there too. Ones that judge a dog food by the size of the company making it. Over the 10 years I have been coming here I have gradually changed my position on Capital Punishment, America’s involvement in Vietnam, Agnosticism and Illegal Immigration…just off the top of my head. You can spend time on another message board comparing the quality of dog food if you want though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463.md?page=3)