# The Really Big Questions Don't Matter **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 16, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463 "2011-09-16T02:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/41 "2011-09-16T18:57:33Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > We see the same thing with abortion. People paint the other side as being mysogynist or murderers, but the crux of the issue is the balance of life vs. free-will in rather extreme juxtaposition of those concepts. A person isn’t objectively wrong for valuing one over the other, but they will be perceived that way by someone who holds a particular view about those relative values and once society as a whole comes to settle on the issue, then it will look as ridiculous as some of the past situations that were contentious in their times but obnoxious in hindsight. The anti-choice side is objectively wrong, besides being dishonest. They constantly make claims that make no sense or are outright lies. The two sides are not even close to being equally valid. And they are misogynists. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/42 "2011-09-16T19:17:43Z")
Scylla, is your argument that, if you yourself cannot come to a decision on profoundly heated topic X, it’s not worth stressing yourself out on where you come down on it because there are arguments to be made on both sides and, hey, whatever side you choose is fine. If that’s the case, I can agree with you. If your argument is that it’s futile to have an opinion on any large topic because it’s pretty much a coinflip either way and it really doesn’t matter in the large scheme of things, well…no. That’s a pretty idiotic viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/43 "2011-09-16T19:32:29Z")
Nm ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/44 "2011-09-16T19:35:05Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I suspect this idea is most attractive to someone who knows their position isn’t strong. If you have to stretch and flail around to find an argument that supports your position a coin-flip (and 50% chance of success) must seem like a boon. Well, quite. I was thinking of this kind of scenario: Say you and I are deadlocked on four distinct topics. I plead that we’ll never agree, so we should just resolve by this novel arbitrary method. You reluctantly comply. I win topics 1 & 2, so those are put to bed. A little while later, I revive the argument on topics 3 & 4… ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/45 "2011-09-16T19:50:31Z")
The big debates that result from big questions are important because it forces compromises that take into consideration the beliefs and desires of both sides. For example, some people are for tax cuts and tiny governments and other people are for tax hikes and large governments. We can’t just go with one side because that would disenfranchise a huge part of the population. The big debates allow each side to make their case as they come up with one solution. No one may be ecstatic about the one common solution, but the pain felt by the solution will (hopefully) be equal among both sides. I personally like when the parties in government are split and we have deadlocks. It means the desires of everyone need to be taken into consideration to get anything done instead of just having one party steamroll whatever they want through. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/46 "2011-09-16T20:12:43Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If your argument is that it’s futile to have an opinion on any large topic because it’s pretty much a coinflip either way and it really doesn’t matter in the large scheme of things, well…no. That’s a pretty idiotic viewpoint. It has however become a common right wing debate tactic when they can’t actually defend their position. Of course, it doesn’t take long for them to revert to claiming that their position is the obvious will of God or whatever other justification they are using at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/47 "2011-09-16T20:16:24Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The fact that very strong arguments can be made in both cases suggests that the expected marginal superiority of one argument versus the other is going to be minimal. > > Therefore we shouldn’t waste our time torturing ourselves about them we should just pick a direction and move on. What would have happened if you had applied this point of view to the Slavery Question in the 1850s? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/48 "2011-09-16T22:36:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > What would have happened if you had applied this point of view to the Slavery Question in the 1850s? Blake suggested that in the first response or so, and I kinda looked at it as a debate ender. Now, I don’t necessarily agree with the OP I’ve made. I’m exploring the issue. As I thought about it some more, maybe slavery isn’t a debate ender. For example, on the one side of the coin we can surely say that slavery is a great moral evil, and that it created great suffering. On the other side of the coin we can say that the civil war created great suffering. If we think the march of progress in the industrial revolution spelled the eventual end of slavery than the question did the civil war cause more death and suffering and moral evil than would have allowing slavery to perpetuated itself until its natural demise. I know it’s an incendiary and offensive question, and I’m not saying the civil war was a bad idea. I would be in favor of it today even if the suffering caused by the war would be greater than that which would occur under slavery. But, looked at that way, it’s an interesting question. Slavery was being abolished and on its way out worldwide. Going to war was a really big question, but did it actually matter that much in terms of net suffering? Now, I can look at two ways of viewing my original OP. The first is for big societal questions like Abortion, Gun control, etc. The second is personally. Do the personal big decisions you make actually matter? Here, I think not. I feel on pretty strong ground. The big decisions don’t matter, but the little ones do. What job you decide to take probably doesn’t matter all that much. It’s the showing up on time, the commitment, the working hard… the sum total of all the little things you do that matters. In most big decisions, it probably just makes sense to pick a directions and go if we are talking about personal decisions. For big societal decisions, I’m not so sure yet, but the civil war analogy makes me wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/49 "2011-09-16T22:40:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’d be interested to know where the OP encountered this viewpoint. Can’t help wondering if the person or group who espoused it perhaps hoped the coin flip would settle half the debates in their favour, and intended not to drop the others. Well… ummmm… You have to promise not to laugh, but since you mention the coin flip thing… Harvey Dent in the Dark Knight. I kind of see that movie as an interesting battle of philosophies. Harvey Dent starts off believing the big decisions are important, but becomes disillusioned when the universe proves to him that they don’t matter. At least that’s how I see it. Other interpretations are certainly possible. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/50 "2011-09-16T23:06:05Z")
I thought this was about the futility of arguing about things like does essence precede existence. On those philosophical big questions. yeah, I’d say there’s very little to be gained from discussing them. Debates about actual real-world events and issues probably do deserve a little more effort. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/51 "2011-09-17T00:32:28Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No; an example of living n a country where the political right has _demonstrably_ gone off the deep end, and neither means well nor has much of a connection to reality in its political positions. Insisting that the right wing position _must_ be a reasonable one doesn’t make it true. Let’s look at the economy. The Democrats have controlled the senate for the last 5 years, the presidency the last 3, and the house for 4 of the last 5 years. Yet our economic diaster is solely Bush’s fault? Obama had a golden chance to correct one of Bush’s mistakes, yet he reappointed Bernanke. You will of course deny this proving my point that the left is totally closed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/52 "2011-09-17T00:38:36Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > If we think the march of progress in the industrial revolution spelled the eventual end of slavery than the question did the civil war cause more death and suffering and moral evil than would have allowing slavery to perpetuated itself until its natural demise. This is a bit off-topic, but if American-style chattel slavery hadn’t been ended by force, I can’t imagine anything good happening to slaves once the bottom fell out of the slave market. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/53 "2011-09-17T00:41:46Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Let’s look at the economy. The Democrats have controlled the senate for the last 5 years, the presidency the last 3, and the house for 4 of the last 5 years. Yet our economic diaster is solely Bush’s fault? Obama had a golden chance to correct one of Bush’s mistakes, yet he reappointed Bernanke. > > You will of course deny this proving my point that the left is totally closed. The Democrats are mostly right wing themselves, as is Obama himself, and what little left or moderate impulses they have get blocked by the Republicans. Who want to create as great an economic disaster as possible to “starve the beast”, and who are willing to sacrifice anything and everything in order to make Obama’s Administration a failure. But yes; most of the present disaster can be traced back to Bush and his fellow Republicans, because they did just that much damage. That’s why there were Democrats even before the last Presidential election who said it would be better for the Democrats if a Republican got elected, because after Bush economic disaster was inevitable and whoever was in office would get the blame. Obama hasn’t helped the matter since he’s a spineless corporatist toady. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/54 "2011-09-17T00:41:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is a bit off-topic, but if American-style chattel slavery hadn’t been ended by force, I can’t imagine anything good happening to slaves once the bottom fell out of the slave market. No. It’s a fair point. I don’t know the answer. What happened in other countries when slavery was abolished? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/55 "2011-09-17T00:43:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Democrats are mostly right wing themselves, as is Obama himself, and what little left or moderate impulses they have get blocked by the Republicans. Who want to create as great an economic disaster as possible to “starve the beast”, and who are willing to sacrifice anything and everything in order to make Obama’s Administration a failure. > > But yes; most of the present disaster can be traced back to Bush and his fellow Republicans, because they did just that much damage. That’s why there were Democrats even before the last Presidential election who said it would be better for the Democrats if a Republican got elected, because after Bush economic disaster was inevitable and whoever was in office would get the blame. Obama hasn’t helped the matter since he’s a spineless corporatist toady. This thread really isn’t so much about politics as philosophy. I’d sincerely appreciate an on point discussion. If your politics create a moral certitude than this thread is not for you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/56 "2011-09-17T00:47:31Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > This thread really isn’t so much about politics as philosophy. I’d sincerely appreciate an on point discussion. > > If your politics create a moral certitude than this thread is not for you. In other words, you don’t want to try to defend your indefensible positions, your “just let me win” argument isn’t working, so you are retreating to some completely undefined “philosophical” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/57 "2011-09-17T00:49:40Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Der already did a solid job of this… Seriously? You actually agree with his extremist position that the Left is always correct and moral and the right is always incorrect and immoral? Amazing. > [@](#): > > Why is killing a fetus murder? The only reason to call it murder is that you think it has a soul (which is a bald assertion of a supernatural element with no evidence for it) or that it will become a thinking human. Worrying about what something may be, when it is not yet that thing is sentimentality. Looking at an acorn and getting misty-eyed about the majestic oak tree it will someday be is sentimentality. Yes, clearly the only reason somebody would consider infanticide of a week old baby to be murder is because of sentimentality. There could not possibly be a rational reason to believe that a week old baby actually is murder. After all, the only reason to call it murder is that you think it has a soul (which is a bald assertion of a supernatural element with no evidence for it) or that it will become a thinking human. Worrying about what something may be, when it is not yet that thing is sentimentality. Looking at an acorn and getting misty-eyed about the majestic oak tree it will someday be is sentimentality. Therefore infanticide should be legal. This sort of closed-minded ignorance of the opposition argument is the real reason why these debate sgo on forever. To many people simply will not even allow themselves to consider whether the opposition has a reasonable viewpoint. They need to demonise it entirely as Lobohan and Der Trihs are doing here. The claim that that everybody who opposes abortion in the 24 hours before natural birth is doing so for sentimental or supernatural reasons is just ludicrous. There simply is no other way to describe. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/58 "2011-09-17T00:50:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > In other words, you don’t want to try to defend your indefensible positions, your “just let me win” argument isn’t working, so you are retreating to some completely undefined “philosophical” argument. ? I think you may have busted a gasket. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/59 "2011-09-17T00:55:44Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Seriously? You actually agree with his extremist position that the Left is always correct and moral and the right is always incorrect and immoral? It does; because in this country, “the Right” is a narrow collection of rabidly extreme fringe positions, and “the Left” comprises the vast majority of political positions. Including all the moderate and fact based ones. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463/60 "2011-09-17T01:05:10Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Seriously? You actually agree with his extremist position that the Left is always correct and moral and the right is always incorrect and immoral? No, he instructed you on why you were so far off base in your criticism. I don’t think the conservative position is necessarily evil. It is often evil, but only because recently they have been adopting the\* Tax Cuts and Obama’s Position x -1\* school of policy. > [@](#): > > Amazing. Again, you misunderstood what I said. To make it plain, calling aborting a fetus murder is an act of either sentimentality or assertion of a supernatural element like a soul. Please don’t read more into my statements than you have position to. I’d prefer if you didn’t try to poison the debate like that. > [@](#): > > Yes, clearly the only reason somebody would consider infanticide of a week old baby to be murder is because of sentimentality. There could not possibly be a rational reason to believe that a week old baby actually is murder. Reread my quote. I said nothing about week old babies. I said all abortions. Is there some reason you need to be so outrageous in your misstatements about my position? > [@](#): > > After all, the only reason to call it murder is that you think it has a soul (which is a bald assertion of a supernatural element with no evidence for it) or that it will become a thinking human. Worrying about what something may be, when it is not yet that thing is sentimentality. Looking at an acorn and getting misty-eyed about the majestic oak tree it will someday be is sentimentality. > > Therefore infanticide should be legal. Not at all. A week old child is a human worthy of rights by any standard. If you were to take a moment to think about my post instead of flying off the handle to support the drivel the anti-choice side pours into the discourse, you might ask yourself: What makes a person worthy of rights? I would say that it is a conscious mind. Consciousness is what defines the valuable part of humanity. A tumor has human DNA and a brain-dead motorcyclist has a heart beat. It is the consciousness that attaches value and makes murder possible. A fetus younger than 20 weeks has less consciousness than a shrimp. Blake, is killing a shrimp murder? Are you going to go histrionic about the shrimp taco I had yesterday? It was tasty. > [@](#): > > This sort of closed-minded ignorance of the opposition argument is the real reason why these debate sgo on forever. To many people simply will not even allow themselves to consider whether the opposition has a reasonable viewpoint. They need to demonise it entirely as Lobohan and Der Trihs are doing here. You not only didn’t understand my position, you outright misstated it. So please, can I ask you to retract your nonsense? > [@](#): > > The claim that that everybody who opposes abortion in the 24 hours before natural birth is doing so for sentimental or supernatural reasons is just ludicrous. There simply is no other way to describe. Again, reread my post. I said all abortions. I perfectly accept that a pre-birth baby can be conscious. And in most cases I wouldn’t support abortion on one. Calm down and enjoy a shrimp taco. PM me your email and I’ll paypal you enough for one, on me. I still stand behind that there is no argument for outlawing _all abortion_ that isn’t nonsense about “Look how cute the wittle feets is!11” or “God said, ‘Hell, nah!’” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-really-big-questions-dont-matter/596463.md?page=4)