The *REALLY* crazy conspiracy theory: WTC buildings downed by controlled demolition

Great Debates
181

f the government wants to stop being accused of being involved in 9/11 they only need to do a few simple things. There were numerous cameras at the Pentagon, and cameras at a nearby gas station (which the FBi stole the tape minutes after the impact). They just need to show us those tapes. Instead we get a 5 frame video that clearly shows a smoke trail from a shaped charge.

Then they need to release the black box information. Since workers found all of the black boxes, but the FBI stole those and said they were melted. I mean, looking at the crash in Pennsylvania…there is nothing there but a hole in the ground.

They could also have an independent commission that wasn’t controlled by Zelikow, a guy that had ties to the Administration for years. they could also release the 20+ pages they revoked prior to printing. They could also allow bush and cheney to be interviewed publicly and under oath, instead of both meeting together, not under oath, and all notes taken had to be turned in prior to leaving. If that doesn’t smell cover-up, then I don’t know.

And then we have the $100k transferred to Atta about a week prior to 9/11. That was proven to have come from the head of Pakistan’s ISI, who happened to be at the Whitehouse the week before 9/11…

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/bluehi.html

http://911research.com/planes/evidence/photos/pacrater3.html

182

[QUOTE=Silk One]
f the government wants to stop being accused of being involved in 9/11 they only need to do a few simple things. There were numerous cameras at the Pentagon, and cameras at a nearby gas station (which the FBi stole the tape minutes after the impact).
[/QUOTE]

Several tapes (which were seized as evidence, not ‘stolen’) were released. They showed pretty much nothing. Security cameras tend to not be pointed at other people’s buildings.

Ah. So five frames is ‘clearly’ and shaped charges have smoke trails? This is new to me.

They did.

The WTC black boxes were destroyed. The Pentagon Black Box was found and its data was released. A bunch of wannabee pilots embarassed themselves trying to ‘prove’ no plane was there.

What the hell do you expect to be there? Its soft ground (reclaimed mining area) and the plane was going down hard and fast!

That’s smells of partisanship being used as a substitute for real evidence.

And we find that the only source for this alleged money transfer is from an Indian newspaper. 'scuse me if I don’t buy it.

Seriously, its like you pulled all your arguements straight out of Loose Change.

183

[QUOTE=Silk One]
f the government wants to stop being accused of being involved in 9/11 they only need to do a few simple things. There were numerous cameras at the Pentagon, and cameras at a nearby gas station (which the FBi stole the tape minutes after the impact). They just need to show us those tapes. Instead we get a 5 frame video that clearly shows a smoke trail from a shaped charge.

Then they need to release the black box information. Since workers found all of the black boxes, but the FBI stole those and said they were melted. I mean, looking at the crash in Pennsylvania…there is nothing there but a hole in the ground.

They could also have an independent commission that wasn’t controlled by Zelikow, a guy that had ties to the Administration for years. they could also release the 20+ pages they revoked prior to printing. They could also allow bush and cheney to be interviewed publicly and under oath, instead of both meeting together, not under oath, and all notes taken had to be turned in prior to leaving. If that doesn’t smell cover-up, then I don’t know.

And then we have the $100k transferred to Atta about a week prior to 9/11. That was proven to have come from the head of Pakistan’s ISI, who happened to be at the Whitehouse the week before 9/11..

http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/bluehi.html

http://911research.com/planes/evidence/photos/pacrater3.html
[/QUOTE]

OK, so since all of the WTC arguments that you made were absolute non-starters, in the sense of being 100% unsupported by any factual information, we’re now switching over to the Pentagon and the crash in Pennsylvania?

As you’ll notice from previous posts, the way to debate (at least around here) is to provide cites for claims that you make. If you don’t do that people will generally assume that you’re just making stuff up.

Case in point, your first link shows photos of firemen hosing down the Pentagon. No smoke trails, no shaped charges, etc. I’m not sure what the point is.

Your second link shows two aerial photos of the crash site in Pennsylvania. I assume that those are supposed to support the contention that there was nothing left after Flight 93 crashed? Unfortunately this doesn’t square with the other photos, the large amounts of physical evidence, eyewitnesses, etc.

Again, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with those two photos. Agreed that there’s no shell of an airplane sitting there in plain sight but you wouldn’t expect that when an airliner full of fuel is flown into the ground at extremely high speed.

184

[QUOTE=Silk One]
f the government wants to stop being accused of being involved in 9/11 they only need to do a few simple things. There were numerous cameras at the Pentagon, and cameras at a nearby gas station (which the FBi stole the tape minutes after the impact). They just need to show us those tapes. Instead we get a 5 frame video that clearly shows a smoke trail from a shaped charge.
[/QUOTE]

Here you go. The Citgo station security camera tapes as requested. You’ll notice they don’t actually show the impact. Security cameras at a gas station tend to be aimed at the gas station, not large buildings off in the distance.

Cite?

Flight 77 and 93 FDR data can be downloaded here It’s a big download. FDRs from the planes that hit the towers were never recovered.

185

As I’ve mentioned in earlier threads on this subject I know a person–then a firefighter, now a cop–who saw the plane heading towards the pentagon and was driving the first truck on the scene.

Also, while I’m here, Silk One do you have any counter arguments to anything anyone’s posted above? Right now the thread is going like this

Silk One: 9/11 was a conspiracy! Look at this link!
Random Poster: Here’s why that link is BS. ::gives explanation and counter-link::
Silk One: Look at this link!
Random Poster: Here’s why the new link is BS. ::explanation and counter link::
repeat ad nauseum.

186

[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
Also, while I’m here, Silk One do you have any counter arguments to anything anyone’s posted above?
[/QUOTE]

Ooh! Ooh! I know the answer to this one! Call on me!

187

Core Design:

Eyewitness Explosions:

Black Boxes:

Pentagon Frames (Vapor Trails):
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videopse they’d still be standing because the floors around it would slide around ths/dodvideos.html

Firefighter explanation of minimal fires:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/audiotape.html

Fire analysis:

It is important to know that since all metal columns were connected, heating a point would make it react like a heatsink and the heat would spread along all connected steel. It wouldn’t be able to focus on one area and melt/weaken it.

Pre-Attack Power outages:

Anomalies:

188

[QUOTE=Silk One]
Core Design:

[/QUOTE]

Despite whining by CTers, I have yet to encounter an engineer who has a problem with the term ‘hollow steel shaft’.

Not as strong as you might have us believe.

Data released. Get with the times.

Bad link. What the hell are you talking about?

78th floor. Not the impact area. The 78th floor barely got hit with a wingtip.

No it wouldn’t. By your standards blacksmithery would never work. They would be unable to heat a portion of the bar:

www.jeromegerull.de/.../ the-blacksmith-254.jpg

Rejected even by your CT crowd since there’s zero evidence for it.

[/QUOTE]

Nothing worth a damn, and most of it based on disproven evidence.

189

[QUOTE=Silk One]
Core Design:

Eyewitness Explosions:

Black Boxes:

Pentagon Frames (Vapor Trails):
http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/videopse they’d still be standing because the floors around it would slide around ths/dodvideos.html

Firefighter explanation of minimal fires:

Fire analysis:

It is important to know that since all metal columns were connected, heating a point would make it react like a heatsink and the heat would spread along all connected steel. It wouldn’t be able to focus on one area and melt/weaken it.

Pre-Attack Power outages:

Anomalies:

[/QUOTE]

Why?

190

Then welding shouldn’t work either.

191

[QUOTE=mlees]
Then welding shouldn’t work either.
[/QUOTE]

And neither would thermite :smiley:

192

I’d post a link to an actual picture of steel beams warped by fire, but I don’t think it’d do any good. I don’t think Silk One actually reads any of the responses to his posts.

193

[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]
Despite whining by CTers, I have yet to encounter an engineer who has a problem with the term ‘hollow steel shaft’.
[/quote]

Did you take a look at the picture at the bottom of the link?

[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]

Data released. Get with the times.
[/quote]

Yu’re saying that the data from the black boxes from Flight 11 and Flight 175 were released?

[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]

Bad link. What the hell are you talking about?
[/quote]

[QUOTE=Mr. Miskatonic]

No it wouldn’t. By your standards blacksmithery would never work. They would be unable to heat a portion of the bar:

www.jeromegerull.de/.../ the-blacksmith-254.jpg
[/quote]

I’ll get back to you on that.

194

[QUOTE=Silk One]
Did you take a look at the picture at the bottom of the link?

Yu’re saying that the data from the black boxes from Flight 11 and Flight 175 were released?

I’ll get back to you on that.
[/QUOTE]

Why?

195

[QUOTE=Silk One]

Yu’re saying that the data from the black boxes from Flight 11 and Flight 175 were released?
[/QUOTE]

There is no evidence that the flight data recorders from these flights were ever recovered.

By the way, have you downloaded and examined the data from flights 77 and 93 yet? I did post the link for you.

196

[QUOTE=Silk One]
Did you take a look at the picture at the bottom of the link?

[/QUOTE]

Yes. The core as a whole is still accurately described as a hollow steel shaft. Deal with it.

No. They were destroyed. The others were recovered. BTW, black box data is actually the property of the airlines. It may be confiscated as evidence by the FBI or NTSB, but it still belongs to the airlines. Nonetheless, data for the Pentagon and PA crashes was released.

My point is that your link doesn’t acknowledge this. It is way out of date.

That’s reading waaaaaay too much into the picture.

Just as soon as you learn about basic metalurgy. Heat in metals does not move in the same rate as electricity.

197

[QUOTE=AndrewL]
I’d post a link to an actual picture of steel beams warped by fire, but I don’t think it’d do any good. I don’t think Silk One actually reads any of the responses to his posts.
[/QUOTE]

What’s more amusing is that those metal beams are still being held up by a wooden beam.

Betcha he thinks that steel beams are better than thick wooden beams (8 x10) in a fire.

198

[QUOTE=Valgard]
And neither would thermite :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Or metal cooking pots, since the handle would always be just as hot as the part of the pan touching the element.

199

I’m not sure about 9/11; I doubt government involvement.
But the case of the flight control tapes being thoroughly destroyed just afterwards has always been a concern of mine.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/05/07/faa_managers_destroyed_911_tape/

What do you guys make of it?

200

[QUOTE=bobsled]
I’m not sure about 9/11; I doubt government involvement.
But the case of the flight control tapes being thoroughly destroyed just afterwards has always been a concern of mine.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/05/07/faa_managers_destroyed_911_tape/

What do you guys make of it?
[/QUOTE]
The explanation is in the article you linked to. It wasn’t “flight control tapes” … it was an informal interview with the air traffic controllers immeditately after everything was over. Apparently it was contrary to standard FAA procedure and the manager involved destroyed the tape because he felt it was unfair to the controllers who might not have been in the right state of mind to consent to the taping.