# The reason for the terrorists attacks on the US.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 21, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562 "2003-08-21T00:43:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/1 "2003-08-21T00:43:15Z")
You keep hearing from the Bush admin that they hate us and attack us because they hate democracy.
> [@](#):
>
> The fires were still burning intensely at Ground Zero when Colin Powell declared: “Once again, we see terrorism; we see terrorists, people who don’t believe in democracy…”
> “The threats we face are global terrorist attacks. That’s the threat. And the more you love freedom, the more likely it is you’ll be attacked.”
> As recently as July of this year, the spokesman for Homeland Security, Brian Roehrkasse, declared: “Terrorists hate our freedoms. They want to change our ways.”
Quotes lifted from this article…
[http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=1529](http://www.yellowtimes.org/article.php?sid=1529)
Why can’t our government admit that perhaps these attacks are because of our policies?
I know that these [policies long predate the Bush admin, but to not admit that perhaps things we have done, and are still doing, adds fuel to the fire.
Until we can own to our policies that might be seen as demeaning or downright hostile to others, things will not change.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/2 "2003-08-21T01:04:47Z")
Well, the policy that caused the World Trade Center attacks was that of defending Kuwait from invasion by Iraq.
I am sure that kicking Saddam’s ass out of Kuwait was demeaning to him, but I don’t think we should have done nothing during the first Gulf War.
Most reasonable people agree that Osama bin Laden and his ilk attack the US because he feels that modern, Western secular democracy is threatening to his brand of fundamentalist Islamic theocracy. And the US is seen as the epitome of that form of society.
Are you suggesting that the US has been demeaning to the rest of the world by being a successful, prosperous, and free society? And are you suggesting that we should not work toward that as a vison for the rest of society?
I think those who say that terrorists are threatened by our freedom and our success are right on the money.
If you want to define being a functioning Constitutional republic as provocative, you can do so, but I suspect most Americans would object if you tried to get the US to abandon this “policy”.
You are entirely correct that “things will not change”. So long as we offer a successful alternative to the absolutist vision of many terrorists, they will continue to attack us.
So be it. I would rather suffer the risk of terrorist attack than live under the regime of an Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@Jonmarzie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonmarzie)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/3 "2003-08-21T01:11:28Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Originally posted by **Reeder**
> _Why can’t our government admit that perhaps these attacks are because of our policies?_
**Reeder** , as tempting as it is to put the blame of September 11 on the policies of the United States, it wasn’t the government’s fault. It’s no more their fault as it is when a pretty woman who wears provocative clothing gets raped. Terrorism of the September 11th variety is not the inevitable conclusion of US foreign policy. Could the United States have changed it’s policy so that such an attack would be less likely? Yes, of course. Did we deserve it? Was it our fault? Not in the least.
We should change our policies, though, such that such things are less likely to happen. Our foreign policy, especially in the last few years, has been abyssmal. It is a sign of poor leadership when a countries’ allies are frightened of it.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/4 "2003-08-21T01:19:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Well, the policy that caused the World Trade Center attacks was that of defending Kuwait from invasion by Iraq.
Huh???
You really need to get your story straight. That line is not even historically correct.
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### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/5 "2003-08-21T01:30:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Reeder \*
> \*\*Huh???
>
> You really need to get your story straight. That line is not even historically correct. \*\*
Most ironic statement ever, given the source.
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### Author:  [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/6 "2003-08-21T01:32:48Z")
Shodan, this board is about dispelling ignorance, not propagating it. Not even the most whacked out conspiracy theorist would spout the sort of rubbish you just posted. To say that the 9-11 attacks had anything to do with the 1991 gulf war is just…stupid.
I don’t know what policies Reeder was referring to, but it might have something to do with these policies:
"In Freedom’s name America made sure that any
possibility of secular democratic reform in the Middle
East was shut off. Mount a coup against Mossadegh in
the mid-1950s, as the CIA did, and you end up with the
Ayatollah Khomeni 25 years later. Mount a coup against
Kassim in Iraq, as the CIA did, and you get the
agency’s man, Saddam Hussein.
What about Afghanistan? In April of 1978 a populist
coup overthrew the government of Mohammed Daoud,
who had formed an alliance with the man the U.S. had
installed in Iran, Reza Pahlavi, aka the Shah. The new
Afghan government was led by Noor Mohammed
Taraki, and the Taraki administration embarked on land
reform, hence an attack on the opium-growing feudal
estates. Taraki went to the UN, where he managed to
raise loans for crop substitution for the poppy fields.
Taraki also tried to bear down on opium production in
the border areas held by fundamentalists, since the latter were using opium revenues to finance attacks on
Afghanistan’s central government, which they regarded
as an unwholesome incarnation of modernity that
allowed women to go to school and outlawed arranged
marriages and the bride price. Accounts began to
appear in the Western press along the lines of this from The Washington Post, to the effect that the mujahedin
liked to “torture victims by first cutting off their noses, ears and genitals, then removing one slice of skin after another.”
At that time the mujahedin were not only getting
money from the CIA but from Libya’s Muammar
Qaddafi, who sent them $250,000. In the summer of
1979 the U.S. State Dept. produced a memo making it
clear how the U.S. government saw the stakes, no
matter how modern-minded Taraki might be or how
feudal the muj. It’s another passage Hentoff might read
to the grandkids: “The United States’ larger
interest…would be served by the demise of the
Taraki-Amin regime, despite whatever set backs this
might mean for future social and economic reforms in
Afghanistan. The overthrow of the DRA [Democratic
Republic of Afghanistan] would show the rest of the
world, particularly the Third World, that the Soviets’
view of the socialist course of history being inevitable is not accurate.”
Taraki was killed by Afghan army officers in
September 1979. Hafizullah Amin, educated in the U.S.,
took over and began meeting regularly with U.S.
embassy officials at a time when the U.S. was arming
Islamic rebels in Pakistan. Fearing a fundamentalist,
U.S.-backed regime in Afghanistan, the Soviets invaded
in force in December 1979.
Robert Fisk wrote in the Independent on Sunday, “I
was working for The Times in 1980, and just south of
Kabul I picked up a very disturbing story. A group of
religious mujahedin fighters had attacked a school
because the communist regime had forced girls to be
educated alongside boys. So they had bombed the
school, murdered the head teacher’s wife and cut off her husband’s head. It was all true. But when The Times
ran the story, the Foreign Office complained to the
foreign desk that my report gave support to the
Russians. Of course. Because the Afghan fighters were
the good guys. Because Osama bin Laden was a good
guy. Charles Douglas-Home, then editor of The Times,
would always insist that Afghan guerrillas were called
‘freedom fighters’ in the headline. There was nothing you couldn’t do with words.” (3)
```
How the U.S. contributed to the rise of dictatorships
and terrorism in the Moslem world
Syria, 1948 - The U.S. helps to overthrow
national rulers; Syria becomes terrorist state.
Iran, 1954 - The U.S. overthrows nationalist
Mossadegh, puts the shah in power, his
corruption and oppression set the table for the
rise of fundamentalism resulting in the 1979
Islamic revolution.
Egypt, 1955 - After the U.S. tried to kill
nationalist Gamal Abdel Nasser he turned to the
Soviets.
Iraq, 1958 - The U.S. puts Col. Kassem in
power, who then turns into an anti-American
dictator.
Indonesia, 1967 - The U.S. overthrows Sukarno
leading to the army and mobs killing 500,000
Sukarno supporters.
Libya, 1969 - The U.S. helps a young officer,
Moammar Khadafy, seize power in Libya, then
tries to kill him in 1986.
Iraq, 1975 - The U.S. helps Saddam Hussein (a
former CIA operative) seize power. In 1979, the
U.S. encourages Saddam to invade Iran in an
effort to crush Iran's Islamic revolution. Over
700,000 people die in the war.
```
[http://www.libertocracy.com/Transfer/Articles/USPolicy/Taliban.htm](http://www.libertocracy.com/Transfer/Articles/USPolicy/Taliban.htm)
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/7 "2003-08-21T01:34:02Z")
Is the line correct Mr. Brutus?
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### Author:  [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/8 "2003-08-21T01:58:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Reeder \*
> \*\*Huh???
>
> You really need to get your story straight. That line is not even historically correct. \*\*
OBL has openly stated that the main (though not only) reason he is after the US is the basing of US troops on “sacred” Saudi soil. Since the basing of US troops in SA was a direct, and some might say necessary, consequence of the decision to protect Kuwait from Iraq in 1991, **Shodan** ’s statement is correct.
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### Author:  [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/9 "2003-08-21T02:15:13Z")
Other than going back in time and letting the Soviet Union conquer Afghanistan what other reasonable options do we have?
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/10 "2003-08-21T02:34:30Z")
So we went to war in '91 to protect Kuwait from invasion from Iraq?
And all this time I thought we went and kicked him out after he had already invaded.
Silly me…what was I thinking?
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/11 "2003-08-21T02:39:56Z")
So we went to war in '91 to protect Kuwait from invasion from Iraq?
And all this time I thought we went and kicked him out after he had already invaded.
Silly me…what was I thinking?
---
### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/12 "2003-08-21T02:47:48Z")
Reeder: And perhaps the terrorists attack us just because they like to kill. Ever think of that?
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### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/13 "2003-08-21T03:00:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Why can’t our government admit that perhaps these attacks are because of our policies?
Well, it’s tempting to point out that so far, no one has commandeered aircraft to fly into buildings in Toronto and Otttawa. It’s worth asking, I think, why is that?
OTOH, what substantive difference would admitting to past political failures, mostly committed by persons now dead, make? The issue of the moment in the Middle that has people most pissed off is not what the might have been done in Iran in the 1950’s or Libya in the '60’s (especially not that one), but continued US support for an Israel that is widely seen as oppressor in the region, and the continuing fallout from our serial adventures in Iraq.
What is it with Americans wanting so desperately to believe that their government is solely responsible for every worldwide political tragedy of the past 50 years? It seems like some kind of twisted form of reverse jingoism.
Look, no matter what argument one may make in favor of people in the Middle East or elsewhere having a hard-on for the USA, flying passenger jets into buildings full of innocent civilians is wrong and bad. And I think it’s naive in the extreme to think that a US admission of long-past diplomatic blunders would suddenly make everything rosy.
But hey, it probably wouldn’t hurt all that much if we did admit such.
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### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/14 "2003-08-21T03:01:29Z")
Let me see **Monty** …
Terrorist…I want to kill someone!!
Let me see…should I kill my neighbor or spend bucks just to kill Americans?
Give me a break.
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/15 "2003-08-21T03:16:33Z")
Reeder: So you are now an expert on the criminal mind? I was just postulating one reason why someone would kill those who that person does not consider to be close.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/16 "2003-08-21T03:19:58Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Shodan \*
> \*\* Well, the policy that caused the World Trade Center attacks was that of defending Kuwait from invasion by Iraq.
>
> And the US is seen as the epitome of that form of society. \*\*
```
So Terrorism started in 1991... good to know. What killed those Marines in Lebanon then ? Do you have any real idea of what the terrorists are angry about ?
```
The US WAS possibly the epitome of democracy… not anymore. If America really valued democracy they would cherish the UN… not step over it. What is more democratic than the UN ? Certainly not the Oval office by itself.
Shodan I recommend you stop watching films where the Loonies have no motivation other than to kill and the US is the beacon of democracy… because they have been more like the beacon of the despotics with their Third World coups and CIA plots.
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### Author:  [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/17 "2003-08-21T03:28:55Z")
El Kabong I agree the US certainly gets blamed for way more than they are responsible. Somethings were done by the British before them. That is the price of claiming to stand on higher moral grounds sometimes…
Then like you said… they keep acting like it wasnt their fault and keep supporting Israel way beyond what is necessary for its security. Admitting their faults is the first step in avoiding NEW mistakes and meddling… which is exactly what they are STILL doing. Your just creating a new generation of future terrorists.
```
Its not so much about admitting the past errors either... but being aware and open about them. The american people have to be more aware of them ... to keep politicians from doing it again.
```
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/18 "2003-08-21T03:29:59Z")
I’d dearly love to see how you determine that the UN is democratic, Rashak.
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### Author:  [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/19 "2003-08-21T03:41:26Z")
I absolutely seethe at the whole “they hate our freedom” horseshit. They hate our permissiveness, which they view as moral turpitude, but they do not hate the fact that we’re a democracy, that our citizens have rights, etc. They most definitely hate us for supporting Israel.
I don’t think apologizing for past abuse of sovereignty of other nations is going to deter them at all, but discontinuing current abuse of sovereignty of other nations might help. It would help me to know that my government is not full of hackneyed cold war zealots who think nothing of fucking with other countries.
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### Author:  [@Publius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Publius)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2003, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-for-the-terrorists-attacks-on-the-us/196562/20 "2003-08-21T03:41:58Z")
A great deal of course, depends, on which terrorists we are talking about. The old Eastern European terrorist groups were decidedly different in nature from the modern Islamist terrorist groups, for example. Of the latter, there are further significant differences between Hizbullah, al-Qaida, Hizb-i Islami, etc.
I think a real answer to the question of why terrorists attack the US requires a fairly exhaustive analysis of 20th-century world history, at the least. I don’t think there’s any single deciding factor in play, particularly not one that can be described in a few sentences on this board.
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