# The Reason I Hate America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2000, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084 "2000-07-10T04:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/61 "2000-07-11T12:31:56Z")
> [@](#): > > …college is free… 😃 😃 😃 😃 😃 The only way that could be true is with slave labor. [Here’s what some Swedes think.](http://www.timbro.se/) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/62 "2000-07-11T13:06:38Z")
Okay, let me get this straight. We have all been introduced to soda, who is an authentic Swedish chick. And we’re discussing _politics and economics_ with her. Jesus, people, get a goddamned _clue_ here! (Hiya, soda, and welcome to our madhouse.) ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/63 "2000-07-11T16:14:23Z")
This thread is turning out to be a fantastic international exchange! Love it, simply love it. Credit to you Freak, even though your OP disgusts me. I mean really disgusts me for several reasons: You still have not said anything even half way intelligent (I’m not claiming I’m too far ahead of you, mind you), and you start out by insulting your country, like so many ignorant and ungrateful fools have done before you. AND you have completely distorted (or misunderstood) History. Your facts about WWII are ridiculous my friend, you are the sad product of the last 20 years of dumming down of our schools. And all the hatred of America you spout off is still unfounded. Now, what is excellent in here is the perspective of those from other countries, and the fact that we have this international discussion going. I would like to point out one thing: There are more things in common in all the countries discussed in this thread then there are differences. Even though the US does not claim to be a socialist country we have most of the same programs (welfare, free schools, free healthcare for those who can’t afford it, etc.) Lower taxes in the US - that’s a crock. Anyone who has a job will pay state and federal income tax, then local, and then sales taxes on anything we buy, then luxury tax on top, then fees and dues, on top of that. Our tax rates are just below the average for Europe. But, the differences in the areas of “Government Style” are notable, only on paper, not in practice. That’s not to say that there aren’t other differences, but they are less significant than the similarities. If you want to see real differences let’s talk about the Far East, Middle East, West Africa and East Africa, South America. I’d love to hear from some posters from those regions of the world. Then we can discuss some real differences in quality of life and style of Government. The US and Europe actually seem very similar once you make the Worldwide comparisons. That’s my view of it, anyway. There is one major difference I have seen: diversity of population. I do not believe that there is any other country on earth that has as significant a diversity of population as the US. That is one of the challenges now, to create a society with so many different people all trying to live under the same set of laws. This is not easy, not like a country with mostly like-minded people. Try putting ten people in a room with similar backgrounds and experiences and ask for a consensus. Now try 260 million with major differences, and you get the US. I have been very fortunate to be friends with or work with people from all continents, many different countries, and backgrounds, and truly enjoy meeting new people from anywhere, as long as they “come in peace”. But the sort of nonsense that I see from FreakFreely, which is combined with ignorance and misplaced enthusiasm, is what I truly hate about parts of America. The fact that Freak does not even understand where he lives is most distressing. The fact that he seems to shout people down (and does not allow himself to learn anything) is sad. ---
**Author:** ![FreakFreely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@FreakFreely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FreakFreely)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/64 "2000-07-11T18:02:12Z")
> [@](#): > > even though your OP disgusts me Which part? The part where I ripped on republicans? Libertarians? Democrats? The green party? Or are you just stuck on those three words “I hate America”? Don’t you think it’s odd that nobody cares if I rip on all those guys, so long as I don’t voice my dislike of America? This leads me to believe that you’re paying more attention to those three words than to anything else I’ve said. Well, maybe this’ll clear things up: There are some things I actually **like** about America. Overall, I think we have a loooooong way to go. But we’re heading in the right direction. Time will tell. > [@](#): > > You still have not said anything even half way intelligent Oh really? And here I thought this was more a matter of perspective rather than a comparison of IQs. How very Sili of me. Look, you can have a 160 IQ and still be wrong. The things I’m saying don’t require intelligence to understand. It’s really very simple. “We’re the richest country in the world, why do we have a poverty?” > [@](#): > > and you start out by insulting your country, like so many ignorant and ungrateful fools have done before you. Huh? When did I **ever** insult this country? I said it needs to be changed. I gave reasons why many people’s patriotism is over-blown. I never said, for instance, this country is full of idiots. I never even said “America sucks”! I said “I Hate America”. That’s an opinion, not an insult. I think your patriotism has made you overly sensitive. > [@](#): > > AND you have completely distorted (or misunderstood) History. Your facts about WWII are ridiculous my friend, Really? Which fact would that be? I mean, it’s easy to just say “You’re wrong!”, but can you tell me what I was wrong about? I mean, I’m not ignorant. I’ve read the books, I know my shit. And as far as I know, the facts I presented are all true. But maybe you can prove me otherwise? Please, enlighten me. > [@](#): > > friend, you are the sad product of the last 20 years of dumming down of our schools. Bill? Is that you? Tom? I’m assuming you must be someone who knows me, because you sure act like you do. Actually, about halfway through high school I realized that if I was going to be educated, I’d have to do it myself. I’m self-educated. And in my opinion, I did rather well. But maybe you can dredge up some facts to prove me wrong? Hmmmm? > [@](#): > > And all the hatred of America you spout off is still unfounded. I’m sorry, perhaps I have a different idea of what’s “founded”. I thought the reasons I gave were pretty good. Or at least, they’re good enough for me. And since I’m not trying to validate **your** hatred, good enough for me is all that counts. > [@](#): > > But the sort of nonsense that I see from FreakFreely, which is combined with ignorance and misplaced enthusiasm, Misplaced enthusiasm? How? What’s so wrong with thinking this country really needs to improve? I think that’s a perfectly valid enthusiasm. > [@](#): > > The fact that Freak does not even understand where he lives is most distressing What on Earth gives you that idea? I understand this country perfectly. I watch the news, and I pay attention to the world around me. Just because I don’t see what you see doesn’t mean I’m blind. In fact, I think you’re showing quite a bit more intolerance than me. But that’s just the way I see it. > [@](#): > > The fact that he seems to shout people down (and does not allow himself to learn anything) is sad. Shout people down? Who? When? I think I’ve been comparatively civil. After all, I’m not the one who shouted “WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT, MORON!!!”. In fact, I believe that was you who said that. And I’m always open to learning, so long as you have something teach. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/65 "2000-07-11T20:30:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FreakFreely \* > \*\* See, before the second world war we didn’t have nearly so much money. Then Hitler came along and beat the shit out of everyone else. Now, since we didn’t really have much play in that war, we got through relatively unharmed. And since we were one of the only countries left standing, everyone else needed to buy **our** stuff. Not to mention, borrow **our** money. So yeah, it was capitalizing that made us so rich (namely, capitalizing on other people’s pain), but not capitalism itself. > \*\* Say what? America already had a huge industrial base before a single shot was ever fired - that’s why the Yanks were able to pour tremendous amounts of material into the war. In “Inside the Third Reich,” Albert Speer, who pretty much managed Germany’s economy during the war, describes how he found out about America’s industrial power. He was working in his office when an aide came in, closed the door, and showed him the figures he’d come up with on America’s productive capacity. Speer says he took one look and chills went down his spine. America’s industrial capacity dwarfed Germany’s. IIRC, he says he knew right then and there that Germany was not going to win the war. This took place only a few days after America entered the conflict. On the other hand, you’re basically right to say that America prospered in large part because its economic competitors had all been flattened by the war. > [@](#): > > **… the woman I’ll be living with is pagan, and she’s never had a problem.** Weigh kewl. Is she into Asatru? Is there much of a pagan scene in Sweden? I don’t mean to get off topic, but it would really interest me to know. ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/66 "2000-07-11T22:17:51Z")
Something different about your last post… Sounds like a rational person speaking. You said things like “improving” and “change”. OK. No problem. All people should always be able to speak about positive change. But don’t confuse this with the way you started out – the “I Hate America” theme is all to familiar, and not too attractive – I respond in kind. No Way To Go But Up from here, Freak. > [@](#): > > Really? Which fact would that be? I mean, it’s easy to just say “You’re wrong!”, but can you tell me what I was wrong about? Just about all the things you stated as fact (opinions are, of course, yours to have). Glad to hear you are willing to learn. I don’t have anything to teach you, but you can learn by looking at some web sites and reading any of thousands of printed texts. Not that you bothered to back up anything you said, but A few links for WWII US Army info: [http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/online/Bookshelves/WW2-GEN.htm](http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/online/Bookshelves/WW2-GEN.htm) [http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/11-9/11-9c.htm](http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/11-9/11-9c.htm) Were you will learn that the US did much more than just “make money” off this war. And this is just the Army. Timeline for WWII [http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm](http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm) You will learn that your statement about the US not being involved "when Jews were being killed"is also wrong. The US entered the War very close to the time that the “Final Solution” was being discussed. That may not have been the main motivation for the US, but nevertheless your facts are not correct. The US was also a major factor in this war, and many Europeans are more familiar with the extent of US involvement then Americans. I’m sure there are many people on this board who can give much more info, if they care to. > [@](#): > > Misplaced enthusiasm? How? What’s so wrong with thinking this country really needs to improve? I think that’s a perfectly valid enthusiasm. Enthusiasm for change is good. I probably disagree with you about the “direction” of this nation, i.e. what is good and what is not good, but that’s OK. If you talk about positive change, I’ll be very interested to hear it. I’ll call you on it, but it’s not like saying “I hate America”. Enthusiasm for hatred, even if you think it’s the one true view, is just plain wrong. I am enthusiastic about freedom, peace, love, and many other things. I hate communists and socialists (sorry), but I’ll try to stop myself from being proud of my hatred. When people start to spout off blatant BS, I just jump in with nastiness of my own, (damned instincts, I’ve been fighting them for years). Anyway, I will discuss anything rational with rational people. Including why my personal experience leads me to believe socialism is wrong. Not co-operation for common good per se, but a system of government that requires one to take care of another’s financial concerns. Anyway, I digress. > [@](#): > > # The fact that Freak does not even understand where he lives is most distressing. > > What on Earth gives you that idea? I understand this country perfectly. I watch the news, and I pay attention to the world around me. Just because I don’t see what you see doesn’t mean I’m blind. In fact, I think you’re showing quite a bit more intolerance than me. But that’s just the way I see it. Well, you are right, it’s all in the way you see it. You think this country needs improvement and so do I. I am, in fact, very tolerant of people (I do not believe that I have a right to tell anyone how to live) as long as they do the same in return. You left no room in your statements for those who would oppose you, so I have to say screw that, I don’t have to put up with this. Get it? If you say that you think the Green party has the wrong approach to controlling Off-Shore Oil Drilling because it does not consider real-world demands (not my opinion, just example) I will read you post with interest. If you say “I hate those fuckin Libertarians” (again, example, not exact words) without ANY rationale at all, and throw in a bunch of false facts on top, I’ll assume you’re a moron. Sorry, just my simpleton approach to things. So, you got a babe in Sweden, huh? I’d ask if she had an older sister, but I’m married. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2000, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/67 "2000-07-11T23:51:17Z")
**tradesilicon** : > [@](#): > > You will learn that your statement about the US not being involved "when Jews were being killed"is also wrong. The US entered the War very close to the time that the “Final Solution” was being discussed. That may not have been the main motivation for the US, but nevertheless your facts are not correct. Eh, that’s kind of dissembling a little bit. I don’t think you can limit “the time when Jews were being killed” to post-Wansee or even near-Wansee (January 1942, for those keeping score). Dachau and Buchenwald were open for business by MArch 1933; they were of course concentration camps and not death camps, but they certainly resulted in untold numbers of deaths both due to Nazi executions and the poor conditions. The race laws were passed in 1935, and the Kristallnacht occurred in Nov. 1938. Jews were already being killed in massive numbers by the time the Wansee Conference took place. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/68 "2000-07-12T02:12:52Z")
Byz, we had a little chart up at work, I wish I still had it. It compared overall tax burden amoung the 40 'western" industrialized nations (this included Japan). I know the uSA was 39th and Turkey was 40th. European nations were amoung the highest, especially Scand. nations. However, it is not impossible Sweden was also amoung the lowest, also, and maybe I’m getting my recoleection of Denmark or something mixed up. Now, this chart was for OVERALL tax burden, ie total taxes from everything vs all income, and not set for any economic bracket. The problem, sometimes, with the info which compares taxes for the “working class”, is that the compliers get to decide where the breaks are, thsu changing the stats to fit their wanted profile. Our chart was courtesy US Treasury. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/69 "2000-07-12T02:18:10Z")
Also in regards to pldennison’s post. One of the more disturbing inncedents of allied behavior was this. even after they knew about the death camps and that jew were being taken there by train they refused to blow up many train lines. Why? Becrause they wanted to preserve infrastructure to make it easier to rebuild after the war. ---
**Author:** ![Altair\_8800](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Altair\_8800](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Altair_8800)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/70 "2000-07-12T02:31:03Z")
The government may not be great, but face it: America is still one of the greatest countries on this planet! We have the Bill of Rights, we have Tennessee Whiskey, and we have nuclear weapons. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/71 "2000-07-12T04:50:19Z")
Freak, you seem to think that happiness is somehow important to a government and that a government can somehow create happiness. Well, it cannot. People are amazingly unaffected by poverty in their level of happiness. The only things really that will signifigantly change a person’s level of happiness is either a psychological disorder or something like UNEMPLOYMENT. Although the physical needs of a Swedish unemployed person may be met, the same feelings of depression and unhapiness that affect most unemployed people affect Swedes the same. Places like France, Germany, Sweden, etc. that have tried to make their citizens happier through social reforms, worker restrictions, etc., have increased unemployment rates, making their citizens actually unhappier. If you want a reflection of this, Swedes are more than 27% more likely to commit suicide. Apparently, those Swedes are not all that happy. (WHO, yes the same that I recently lamblasted) I know what makes me happy; challenging the way that I think, inventing, taking the path that has not been taken, and coming up with innovative ideas. This is hard to do in a socialist country where you cannot build up your own company in under 20 years to be the largest company in the world (i.e. Microsoft). If you are perfectly content with living welfare check to welfare check or, “keeping your nose to the grindstone,” to let somebody else go from check to check without doing a single interesting thing or really challenging yourself, knock yourself out; or rather do not. I just find that environment awfuly stifling. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/72 "2000-07-12T04:52:28Z")
Freak, you seem to think that happiness is somehow important to a government and that a government can somehow create happiness. Well, it cannot. People are amazingly unaffected by poverty in their level of happiness. The only things really that will signifigantly change a person’s level of happiness is either a psychological disorder or something like UNEMPLOYMENT. Although the physical needs of a Swedish unemployed person may be met, the same feelings of depression and unhapiness that affect most unemployed people affect Swedes the same. Places like France, Germany, Sweden, etc. that have tried to make their citizens happier through social reforms, worker restrictions, etc., have increased unemployment rates, making their citizens actually unhappier. If you want a reflection of this, Swedes are more than 27% more likely to commit suicide. Apparently, those Swedes are not all that happy. Americans have less time between jobs are fewer people are unemployed at any given time suggesting that they are happier (refering to the suicide rates). (WHO, yes the same that I recently lamblasted) I know what makes me happy; challenging the way that I think, inventing, taking the path that has not been taken, and coming up with innovative ideas. This is hard to do in a socialist country where you cannot build up your own company in under 20 years to be the largest company in the world (i.e. Microsoft). If you are perfectly content with living welfare check to welfare check or, “keeping your nose to the grindstone,” to let somebody else go from check to check without doing a single interesting thing or really challenging yourself, knock yourself out; or rather do not. I just find that environment awfuly stifling. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2000, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/73 "2000-07-12T08:13:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by oldscratch \* > \*\*Also in regards to pldennison’s post. One of the more disturbing inncedents of allied behavior was this. even after they knew about the death camps and that jew were being taken there by train they refused to blow up many train lines. Why? Becrause they wanted to preserve infrastructure to make it easier to rebuild after the war. \*\* You must be crazy, the Allies did everything they could to destroy rail lines, roads, bridges, factories, dams, generators, and everything else they could bomb, strafe, shell or otherwise hit from a distance. There wasn’t even a THOUGHT about “preserving the infrastructure” until the war was nearly over. Does Dresden sound like 'preserving the infrastructure"? How about trying to shell Berlin flat? My dad knew several Fighter/bomber pilots who, if they could not find any “good” targets, just dumped on tracks, per orders. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/74 "2000-07-18T18:42:36Z")
I’m resurrecting this thread rather than posting in the new “anti-freak” thread because this thread contains stuff that interests me more. 1.) “Amurcuh, luv it 'r leave it!” What a profound argument! did you all think of it yourselves? =) 2.) Freak, don’t let anyone give you shit for having opinions just cause you’re 19. Given time you will modify your opinions, based on learning and experience but its great that someone of your generation is thinking something other than “Korn Rules!” or “This killer app will make me a mint!” There is nothing like living in another country to broaden your mind. The only problem some americans have had when moving to Scandinavian countries is that its alot harder to make new friends. Scandinavians tend to be more reserved than Americans, and new arrivals can be somewhat lonely. However, since you are moving there with a native SO, this may not be a problem for you. (My parents lived in Copenhagen for three years. I know Denmark and Sweden are different countries, but there are many similarities.) 3.) Arguing about which system is better is pointless. The question is what system will work in what country. In a small homogenous country like Sweden, high taxes are not a problem. The people can see immediate results from their taxes, like health and education. In a large multi-ethnic country like the U.S., where the benefits of federal taxes are not immediately apparent, Socialism will not be politically tolerable or practically feasible. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/75 "2000-07-18T19:57:19Z")
Danielinthewolvesden, my grandfather WAS a fighter-bomber pilot. He flew Tempests late in the war when the Germans has basically no airplanes left in Western Europe. According to him, his primary mission when he wasn’t chasing down V-1s (yes, they did that) was destroying the railway system. He’d blow trains spang off the tracks and do a second pass to kill the crew running away. And yes, he’d drop bombs on the tracks. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/76 "2000-07-18T21:27:52Z")
Well. It looks like we have a proliferation of dumbshits. Ah well, just need to get out my truth spray and it will send them into remission. > **[Timeline | American Experience | PBS](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/holocaust-timeline/)** > > A timeline of America's reaction to the Holocaust. is the relevant site, don’t worry you can find a lot more. The year is 1944 > [@](#): > > May 15 – Nazis begin deporting Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz. Four trains leave per day, each carrying 3,000 Jews. > June 1 – President Roosevelt agrees to allow 1,000 refugees in Italy to come to a camp in the U.S. > June 6 – The Allies land at Normandy in the D-Day invasion of France. > June 25 – Pope Pius XII makes a plea to the Hungarian head of state Miklós Horthy to save Hungarian Jews. > June – Appeals from the Jewish underground in Slovakia to bomb the deportation routes to Auschwitz reach Switzerland. > **June – War Department turn downs appeals to bomb rail links between Hungary and Auschwitz.** Anyone want to dispute the facts? ---
**Author:** ![tradesilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tradesilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tradesilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/77 "2000-07-18T21:49:36Z")
oldscratch, buddy, I thought better of you. Why not include all the facts, rather than disputing them. for those who did not follow the link, since oldscatch just highlighted a few events: [ul] [li]January 13 – Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. receives “Report to the Secretary on the Acquiescence of This Government in the Murder of the Jews.”[/li][li]January 16 – Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. proposes to FDR that a rescue commission be established.[/li][li]January 22 – President Roosevelt establishes the War Refugee Board.[/li][li]March 24 – President Roosevelt issues a war-crimes statement.[/li][li]March – War Refugee Board helps organize the evacuation of 1200 Jewish refugees from Rumania aboard three tiny Bulgarian vessels.[/li][li]March – War Refugee Board convinces Rumania to move 48,000 Jews from Transnistria, out of the path of retreating German troops.[/li][/ul] it goes on, but you see my point. You can make these things turn and twist either way. Boy, this thread took a few turns, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084/78 "2000-07-18T21:55:47Z")
Because the assertation was that allies did bomb rail lines. The allies refused to do so to help the jews. Sure they did so later, but there are many many cases early on of blind indeference and outright anti-semitism. The little things that happened later on in no way make up for those disgusting facts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reason-i-hate-america/25084.md?page=3)