# The "reasonable conversation about guns" that anti-gun Internet people want **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 21, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334 "2013-04-21T21:36:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Melaleuca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Melaleuca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melaleuca)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/21 "2013-04-22T00:13:33Z")
You have to admit, the Nazis would not have started WWII if they didn’t have any guns. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/22 "2013-04-22T00:18:42Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Some more things that gun opponents believe: > > Not only do gun-confiscation proponents not actually exist, gun-rights proponents don’t either… I see trees of green, red roses, too, I see them bloom, for me and you… So, um.. do you like pizza…I mean, did you measure, or what? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/23 "2013-04-22T00:18:59Z")
> [@](#): > > You have to admit, the Nazis would not have started WWII if they didn’t have any guns. They were Germans, they could start a war with Jello. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/24 "2013-04-22T00:21:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > They were Germans, they could start a war with Jello. Yeah, but it’s not like Jello could put up much of a fight. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/25 "2013-04-22T00:26:30Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Some more things that gun opponents believe: > > Not only do gun-confiscation proponents not actually exist, gun-rights proponents don’t either. Anyone who argues or votes against a gun-confiscation bill is a troll or a paid agent of the NRA and has no other motivations for their beliefs or actions. The 70 to 150 million Americans who own guns aren’t real people and they certainly aren’t part of the democratic process. > > There is no such thing as crime. Anyone who thinks they will ever need to defend themselves is paranoid and probably a racist. At the same time, there is a huge epidemic of crime, committed with guns, that is almost certainly going to cause your children to die. Both of these beliefs must be bought into unconditionally at the same time. Questioning their compatibility means you are a Nazi with a small penis. > > Barack Obama’s only motivations in opposing gun ownership are his deep and abiding love for the safety of children. The fact that Obama has personally authorized approximately 200 Newtowns worth of dead Pakistani children is irrelevant and bringing it up to question the motives of him or his supporters makes you a troll or an Alex Jones fan. I’d argue with you, but you’re having so much fun by yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/26 "2013-04-22T00:36:27Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Yeah, but it’s not like Jello could put up much of a fight. Clearly you have never tried nailing it to a tree! ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/27 "2013-04-22T00:37:40Z")
So, lets get specific. Post a link to one federal bill that included language for the confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens. ETA: and it would be nice if you highlight the language or part that discussion the proposed confiscation activities. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/28 "2013-04-22T00:39:13Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Yeah, but it’s not like Jello could put up much of a fight. It would fight better than the French. ---
**Author:** ![Enkel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/df705f/32.png) [@Enkel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enkel)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/29 "2013-04-22T00:39:50Z")
> [@Melaleuca](#): > > You have to admit, the Nazis would not have started WWII if they didn’t have any guns. I think Hitler wouldn’t have been nearly so grumpy if he’d had some good tribble luvin. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/30 "2013-04-22T00:49:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > On a stick! They do sells gun and ammo at some Walmarts, right? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/31 "2013-04-22T01:00:23Z")
Not about the eating! Its just that with their shrill, piping cries when being mounted on the stick, it sounds like you’re impaling Nancy Grace. Gotta love that, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/32 "2013-04-22T02:35:49Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > So, lets get specific. Post a link to one federal bill that included language for the confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens. > > ETA: and it would be nice if you highlight the language or part that discussion the proposed confiscation activities. Gun confiscation is largely paranoia on the part of gun nuts because it would require the national political climate to start approximating California (where confiscation DID occur). It is also fantasy on the part of anti-gun folks who propose ideas and plans that only make sense if confiscation is contemplated. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/33 "2013-04-22T02:52:05Z")
It’s because _ad hominem_ is suspended regarding pro gun supporters during any gun debates. Live with it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/34 "2013-04-22T03:02:17Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Which is odd, because he seems so reasonable himself. That was my point. There are crazy anti-gun people like the OP described. And there are crazy pro-gun people. The crazies on both sides have no interest in reasonable conversation. A reasonable conversation will happen between the reasonable pro-gun people and the reasonable anti-gun people. ---
**Author:** ![3trew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/13edae/32.png) [@3trew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3trew)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/35 "2013-04-22T05:44:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That was my point. There are crazy anti-gun people like the OP described. And there are crazy pro-gun people. The crazies on both sides have no interest in reasonable conversation. > > A reasonable conversation will happen between the reasonable pro-gun people and the reasonable anti-gun people. Good luck with that. There is a strange strain of American exceptionalism that insists that things like single payer health care or gun control or gay marriage cannot possibly work in the U.S.A. despite having worked quite nicely in lots of other countries. The reasonable people will have their conversation, and be told that while it works in practice it can’t possibly work in theory. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/36 "2013-04-22T06:34:53Z")
Well the first step is admitting you have a problem 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/37 "2013-04-22T07:10:50Z")
> [@3trew](#): > > There is a strange strain of American exceptionalism that insists that things like single payer health care or gun control or gay marriage cannot possibly work in the U.S.A. despite having worked quite nicely in lots of other countries. So, when has it worked? We had the Assault Weapons Ban for 10 years. I didn’t work. We have had states implementing their versions of the Assault Weapons Ban for nearly 25 years (specifically, [California](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberti-Roos_Assault_Weapons_Control_Act_of_1989)). How has that worked out for them? We have the National Firearms Act of 1934, the Gun Control Act of 1968, the so-called Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, the import ban by Executive Order (1989), and the Uniform Firearms Act or equivalent in every state in the Union, not to mention the myriad of local gun control, some of which has been overturned but the majority of which still stands. We need tighter laws? The laws are already tight. Enforce them. You want universal background checks? Let’s do it. What else is left, the same proposals that didn’t work when they were first tried? Outright bans? That will never pass any sort of scrutiny in the courts. As amply demonstrated, if the first idea you come up with is the Assault Weapons Ban you’ve already failed. It’s not exceptionalism. It’s “common sense”, to coin a phrase. Common sense dictates that when something doesn’t work the first time, it’s not going to work the second, third, fourth or fifth time. How is it that the laws you want are “common sense”, yet you refuse to use any yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/38 "2013-04-22T08:06:05Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > It’s not exceptionalism. It’s “common sense”, to coin a phrase. Common sense dictates that when something doesn’t work the first time, it’s not going to work the second, third, fourth or fifth time. How is it that the laws you want are “common sense”, yet you refuse to use any yourself? You are absolutely convinced you can cut a cake into neat slices. But you are told that cutting cakes with a knife is dangerous, so you have to start with a spatula. Also, that you don’t want to waste a perfectly good cake practicing, so you need to start with a fake foam rubber cake. Also, slices are unAmerican; you should cut it into concentric circles of varying thicknesses but equal surface areas. Naturally, you fuck up this process, thus proving that you never have been, and never will be, able to cut a cake, for all of time. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/39 "2013-04-22T10:34:10Z")
> [@3trew](#): > > **There is a strange strain of American exceptionalism** that insists that things like single payer health care or gun control or gay marriage cannot possibly work in the U.S.A. despite having worked quite nicely in lots of **other countries.** I’ve taken the liberty of enlarging and emphasizing parts of this cogent observation. There is immediately an attempt to rebut the observation: > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > … [a longish post which ignores the existence of any countries outside U.S.A.] … _Quod Erat Demonstrandum._ ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334/40 "2013-04-22T11:29:43Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _Quod Erat Demonstrandum._ Ehh. Give **Airman** some credit here. I can think of no countries that have attempted to create/first-time implement strict gun control/ownership laws with widespread pre-existing gun ownership and a modern economy to deal with. So, in that sense, the US is somewhat exceptional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reasonable-conversation-about-guns-that-anti-gun-internet-people-want/656334.md?page=3)