# "The Red Pill" and Feminist Violence **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637 "2017-05-29T11:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/241 "2017-06-02T20:28:27Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [That statute again was:](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-46/section-265.html) > > 265 (1) A person commits an assault when > > (a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other > person, directly or indirectly; > > (b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or > > (c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts or impedes another person or begs. > > Standing in front of a doorway sure doesn’t sound like the application of force, nor the threat of same. Is there caselaw, etc you can cite that backs up your interpretation? Not just standing in front of the guy, but when he moves to go around, maneuvering to get in his way. To me that’s a threat of unwanted touching. No caselaw cites. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/242 "2017-06-02T21:40:48Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > In light of the fact that all I was getting here was a competition between individuals competing in the moral superiority Olympics, I spoke to a real lawyer about this. > After watching the footage, he said. > > 1. The actions of the harpie constituted assault. The guy involved would have been justified in decking her. > 2. The obstruction of access to the venue constituted an unlawful act; the police were derelict in their duty in not clearing access. > 3. Under the circumstances, anyone being prevented from accessing the venue would be justified in using any force they deemed necessary to gain access. Courts would deem the obstruction by the protesters as an unlawful act and a justifying and mitigating factor. > 4. In that the obstruction and the corresponding assaults by the protesters are unlawful acts, any action taken by the victims in mitigating an unlawful act are mitigating and exonerating acts. > So decking the harpie, and any of her comrades, would be justified and lawful. > [@AK84](#): > > 1. True and possibly. > 2. True > 3. True > 4. True > > Your conclusion: false. Somehow you can have managed to come to the wrong conclusion despite getting the main points right. That takes some doing. > [@Punoqllads](#): > > 3 is false: “justified in using **any force they deemed necessary** to gain access” (emphasis mine) is ill-informed. Reasonable force would be allowed, of course. Makes sense with **Punoqllads** ’ adjustment. The scenario I want to see the OP address is this: The woman, behaving like an uncivilized jerk, is shouting obscenities and obstructing the way into the auditorium. The police stand idly by, yawning & feigning indifference. Our OP decides that hitting the woman is a good idea, and probably legally justifiable. So, choosing to be uncivilized himself, he takes his best swing. Unbeknownst to him, she’s a karate expert and after watching his punch get harmlessly deflected, the next thing he knows he’s lying on the ground with a broken kneecap & a mostly crushed larynx. What does the OP think should happen next: morally, practically, and legally? Recognizing those are three different standards with probably three different answers. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/243 "2017-06-02T22:14:35Z")
Morally, practically, and legally - he just committed assault in full view of the watching cops, who will, presumably, arrest him after they’ve called for an ambulance. The black belt who decked him will be able to claim self dense. I have no idea what the op thinks will happen. Maybe Dat Boi will ride by and ask him “what up?”. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/244 "2017-06-02T22:14:43Z")
I’d love another dachshund! But we’re limited to two, and we’re at our limit now.☹ ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/245 "2017-06-02T22:16:27Z")
I, too, would like a dachshund. Chocolate, please. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/246 "2017-06-02T22:24:11Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Morally, practically, and legally - he just committed assault in full view of the watching cops, who will, presumably, arrest him after they’ve called for an ambulance. The black belt who decked him will be able to claim self dense. > > I have no idea what the op thinks will happen. Maybe Dat Boi will ride by and ask him “what up?”. I dunno, I think that the self-defense claim might be strained a bit by the use of excessive force. She would definitely get the opportunity to argue her case, though. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/247 "2017-06-02T22:24:22Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I, too, would like a dachshund. Chocolate, please. [Here ya go.](https://www.etsy.com/listing/127295456/3-d-chocolate-dachshund?&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_c-home_and_living-other&utm_custom1=330c3238-698e-4b66-9619-cd201fed78e7&gclid=CNLIwNeZoNQCFRlWDQodpmIJ7Q) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/248 "2017-06-02T22:25:33Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > Five pages in and only a very few people recognize the childish toxic fog this thread generates, out of one quasi-male’s infantile inability to relate with women at a post-pubescent level, and refuse to validate it with argument. To make it clear: if you think you’re expected to fuck women, and you can’t, you want to hit them. If by law you’re prevented from doing _that_, you go on message boards and try to find validation for your wish to hit them, which sublimates your never-to-be-fulfilled wish to fuck them. If you don’t get even _that_ satisfaction, you retreat to a fantasy that says you are right all along. Then you either retreat into your inadequate pornography-enhanced fantasy life forever, or you become an actual rapist, which includes all those inadequate men who assault women in _any_ way (like punching them in the face) while subscribing to the above delusions. I think you’re being unfair. He could also solicit the services of prostitutes, possibly. It hinges on how little money he makes, and whether his appearance, breath and body odor are so repulsive that even professionals don’t want his business. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/249 "2017-06-02T22:28:03Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > I’d love another dachshund! But we’re limited to two, and we’re at our limit now.☹ > [@Merneith](#): > > I, too, would like a dachshund. Chocolate, please. I was not clear enough. ☹ I am trying to find a dachshund for a friend. If anyone hears about a dachshund who needs a home, please let me know. Thank you. Also, a group of us were recently discussing the use of sublingual melatonin for sleep. Has anyone else tried this? Does it have be labelled sublingual to be used that way or is the liquid form sufficient? What dosage do you use? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/250 "2017-06-02T22:56:19Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Makes sense with **Punoqllads** ’ adjustment. > > The scenario I want to see the OP address is this: > > The woman, behaving like an uncivilized jerk, is shouting obscenities and obstructing the way into the auditorium. The police stand idly by, yawning & feigning indifference. Our OP decides that hitting the woman is a good idea, and probably legally justifiable. So, choosing to be uncivilized himself, he takes his best swing. > > Unbeknownst to him, she’s a karate expert and after watching his punch get harmlessly deflected, the next thing he knows he’s lying on the ground with a broken kneecap & a mostly crushed larynx. > > What does the OP think should happen next: morally, practically, and legally? Recognizing those are three different standards with probably three different answers. You know if he had simply forced his way in despite her protests, even if in doing so he had pushed or shoved her roughly, don’t think anyone would find that objectionable. The OP has a weird fixation on wanting to punch the woman. **Human Action** , the other sections are not really relevant to the discussions of the man’s culpability; the [self-defence statute in Canada](http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-9). All he needs is to have an apprehension that force is being used against him. Nor does the force necessarily have to be unlawful, its a factor that the Court may consider, but not a necessarily deterministic one. Plus the woman’s actions are in any case clearly unlawful. Again, this case turns on not whether there was force or a threat of it, that’s pretty clearly established, but on whether the response was justified. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/251 "2017-06-02T22:58:19Z")
I doubt he’s allowed to punch her in the face, but he must have some sort of recourse, such as shoving her aside. Otherwise, “protestors” could deny access to any private property they want. If the protesters decide to stand in front of the door to this guy’s house (assume the door opens to the street, so they’re not standing on his land), does he just have to accept it and not ever go in his house again? What if his kids are inside and need him? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/252 "2017-06-02T23:46:13Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > I doubt he’s allowed to punch her in the face, but he must have some sort of recourse, such as shoving her aside. I think we established earlier that pushing her out of the way would be considered reasonable force. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/253 "2017-06-02T23:55:32Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Also, a group of us were recently discussing the use of sublingual melatonin for sleep. Has anyone else tried this? Does it have be labeled sublingual to be used that way or is the liquid form sufficient? What dosage do you use? Having just tried it last night, it wasn’t labeled ‘‘sublingual’’ but the liquid definitely absorbed quickly into my system. I think it’s one of those things you have to know how to use properly. I read that the half-life is something like 20 minutes, and that it tricks your brain into thinking it’s nighttime, so you have to tell your body it’s nighttime in other ways – like if you take it during the day, you will screw yourself up. So you have to make your room dark, maybe limit your exposure to blue light, take it, and then during that brief period where it’s telling your brain ‘‘sleeeeeep,’’ go to sleep. As I said, I still woke up in the middle of the night last night, but I used another dose and it put me to sleep. Now that I understand how it works better, I think I will have more progress. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/254 "2017-06-03T00:33:25Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I was not clear enough. ☹ I am trying to find a dachshund for a friend. If anyone hears about a dachshund who needs a home, please let me know. Thank you. > > Also, a group of us were recently discussing the use of sublingual melatonin for sleep. Has anyone else tried this? Does it have be labelled sublingual to be used that way or is the liquid form sufficient? What dosage do you use? I’m glad it sort of worked for **Spice**! Mine isn’t labeled sublingual, but that’s how I used it and it worked. I actually got six hours of sleep! Right now, it’s a miracle. I’m finding it more effective than tablets, although I’d bet the tablets don’t have the amount they say they do. Natrol is a well-respected brand and I trust them to actually contain what they say it does. I owe **Chimera** a beer or a coffee, oh wait, maybe not coffee. A dachsund if there are any spares? (I was going to move this to the mini-rants thread, but this one is MUCH better. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/255 "2017-06-03T02:03:04Z")
Mine arrived today. I shall report back. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/256 "2017-06-03T02:39:19Z")
Well, I take Trazadone too. I understand a lot of people don’t like it because it leaves them feeling tired during the day. It doesn’t put me to sleep. I can still take hours to get to sleep. What it does is help keep me asleep. Instead of the ‘Spin Cycle’ - waking up and rolling over every 5-15 minutes, I sleep for a couple of hours at a time and can even get up, go pee, come back and get straight back to sleep. Just my experience, but also my experiences with sleep meds. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/257 "2017-06-03T02:47:06Z")
I’ve done Trazodone before. It works pretty well, but you have to take it early in the night because it works for like eight hours. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/258 "2017-06-03T02:50:22Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, I take Trazadone too. I understand a lot of people don’t like it because it leaves them feeling tired during the day. > > It doesn’t put me to sleep. I can still take hours to get to sleep. What it does is help keep me asleep. Instead of the ‘Spin Cycle’ - waking up and rolling over every 5-15 minutes, I sleep for a couple of hours at a time and can even get up, go pee, come back and get straight back to sleep. > > Just my experience, but also my experiences with sleep meds. Spin Cycle. I like that description. It’s very accurate for me. Even after I manage to doze off, I’m usually in the spin cycle for hours. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/259 "2017-06-03T02:54:45Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’ve done Trazodone before. It works pretty well, but you have to take it early in the night because it works for like eight hours. And I recommend taking it 20-30 minutes before you want to go to bed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/260 "2017-06-03T02:55:58Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I think you’re being unfair. He could also solicit the services of prostitutes, possibly. It hinges on how little money he makes, and whether his appearance, breath and body odor are so repulsive that even professionals don’t want his business. I possibly am being unfair. I don’t think prostitutes are necessarily parties to consensual sex. I recognize that it’s a gray area, but I’m not willing to believe that the OP has ever had a willing, enthusiastic sexual partner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637.md?page=14)