# "The Red Pill" and Feminist Violence **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2017, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637 "2017-05-29T11:04:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/41 "2017-05-29T23:21:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > As someone who has worked with women’s shelters (in three countries) for the better part of a decade let me tell you this, women’s shelters are already tense and problematic enough without taking in “battered” men. I’m curious, why did you feel the need to put quotation marks around the word battered when referring to men? ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/42 "2017-05-29T23:26:14Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Unfortunately they banded together and formed part of the coalition that elected our Orange Overlord. ☹ But 53 percent of the white female voters in this country voted for Donald Trump. I understand it’s easy to dump on white men but the 53 per cent of white women who voted for Trump, are they part of the band or just groupies? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/43 "2017-05-29T23:31:00Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Sure, but those problems are themselves the consequences of patriarchy and toxic masculinity, so if they seriously care about them then by positioning themselves as anti-feminism they’re just shooting themselves in the foot, since _those are exactly the sorts of problems feminism is working to make progress on_. I’m not sure “Toxic Masculinity” is the reason there are far fewer men at university, or guys who get cleaned out in a divorce decide to kill themselves, or why men are more likely to be killed in industrial accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/44 "2017-05-29T23:34:13Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m not sure “Toxic Masculinity” is the reason there are far fewer men at university …valuing physical labor over intellectual work > [@](#): > > or guys who get cleaned out in a divorce decide to kill themselves …because self-worth is tied to dominating women, and so when one loses big time in a divorce settlement, well, that’s the exact opposite of what just happened > [@](#): > > or why men are more likely to be killed in industrial accidents. …recklessness and disregard for personal safety is a pretty central element of toxic masculinity, actually ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/45 "2017-05-29T23:41:55Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > I just attended a showing of the documentary “The Red Pill”. This documentary on men’s rights It’s rare that I can pinpoint the precise instant that I lost interest in a thread. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/46 "2017-05-30T00:19:54Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > …because self-worth is tied to dominating women, and so when one loses big time in a divorce settlement, well, that’s the exact opposite of what just happened Maybe there’s a middle ground between “dominating” someone and being allowed to take care of one’s own needs and be involved with one’s children,etc. I’ve never been there because of divorce but I’ve been pretty despondent at points when I’ve found myself working every waking moment and being unable to meet basic needs - not wanting to dominate anyone but wishing I could have any leisure time and see my family and stuff like that. In most of the cases I hear men complaining it’s when they go from having a nice place to live, being able to spend time with their children, do fun things, take care of their health (eat well, exercise, rest, etc), etc and then through no fault of their own they end up working 2 jobs and living in a small apartment and seeing their kids every other weekend. Divorce sucks for women and everyone else, too, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think that the entire point of men wanting to be married and have families and comfortable lifestyles is due to wanting to display dominance over women. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/47 "2017-05-30T00:28:09Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [It does.](https://patch.com/illinois/oswego/woman-injured-daughter-battered-husband-oswego-police) Over 830,000 cases per year according to [WebMD](http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/help-for-battered-men). This definition of battered men includes women “withholding approval.” I have a hunch that women seeking help from battery are slightly more aggrieved. Either way, men seeking shelter from women withholding their approval have a much simpler recourse. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/48 "2017-05-30T00:30:07Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > It’s rare that I can pinpoint the precise instant that I lost interest in a thread. Me, too. And yet here we still are…\* (I’ll admit there are men and women with valid issues. Which should be addressed without poorly made pseudo-documentaries muddying the public discourse.) \*Okay, not anymore. I’m heading down to the local pub to watch the Pittsburgh Penguins play against… umm, some other team of manly men. All I know is they have a sabretoothed logo… but I’ll be watching with real guys’ guys, all ignoring our issues. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/49 "2017-05-30T00:34:53Z")
> [@dba\_Fred](#): > > But 53 percent of the white female voters in this country voted for Donald Trump. > I understand it’s easy to dump on white men but the 53 per cent of white women who voted for Trump, are they part of the band or just groupies? My comment was in response to a quip about poor, abused white men in America who just can’t get a break. Obviously other people voted for the Tangerine Dream, which is why I used the word coalition. My comment was not meant to be a complete representation of said coalition. I apologize for slighting any members of that coalition. Please forgive my egregious oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Polar\_Iceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Polar\_Iceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polar_Iceman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/50 "2017-05-30T02:24:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since the OP is more of a rant than a genuine question, and the potential consequences of assaulting another person are pretty self-evident, let’s move this to the Pit. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator No, this was a genuine question relating to a legal issue. If I am going about my legal business and I am obstructed from doing that, and in addition, subjected to vile verbal abuse, what is my recourse? My natural inclination would be to smack that person in the mouth a couple of times. However, clearly this presents some legal issues. So my question was: 1. What are the legal ramifications of my smacking her in the mouth. 2. In light of the fact that the police were just standing there watching and refused to take action to protect my democratic right to go about my business, what is my recourse? These are not questions for the pit. They are questions that require a factual answer. Could you please move the question back to the correct forum? ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/51 "2017-05-30T02:29:19Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > No, this was a genuine question relating to a legal issue. > > If I am going about my legal business and I am obstructed from doing that, and in addition, subjected to vile verbal abuse, what is my recourse? > > My natural inclination would be to smack that person in the mouth a couple of times. However, clearly this presents some legal issues. > > So my question was: > > 1. What are the legal ramifications of my smacking her in the mouth. > 2. In light of the fact that the police were just standing there watching and refused to take action to protect my democratic right to go about my business, what is my recourse? > > These are not questions for the pit. They are questions that require a factual answer. > Could you please move the question back to the correct forum? Why do you hate free speech? Why do you want the police to intervene in the exercise of free speech? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/52 "2017-05-30T02:30:33Z")
Good lord, another one. Hey, thanks for self-identifying before we got to be friends in other threads or we got used to your presence. Why do you, as a white male, feel the need to feel ‘oppressed’? You’re like, the least oppressed class of person on Earth. I should know. I’m an average looking middle aged white man who could dance through the middle of an active police response with no one looking at me twice. So what need does this fill in you? Do you feel that you are a failure in other ways, including with women, and this helps explain that? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/53 "2017-05-30T02:35:11Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > No, this was a genuine question relating to a legal issue. > > If I am going about my legal business and I am obstructed from doing that, and in addition, subjected to vile verbal abuse, what is my recourse? > > My natural inclination would be to smack that person in the mouth a couple of times. However, clearly this presents some legal issues. > > So my question was: > > 1. What are the legal ramifications of my smacking her in the mouth. > 2. In light of the fact that the police were just standing there watching and refused to take action to protect my democratic right to go about my business, what is my recourse? > > These are not questions for the pit. They are questions that require a factual answer. > Could you please move the question back to the correct forum? The first paragraph of your op makes the above a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/54 "2017-05-30T03:17:37Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > …valuing physical labor over intellectual work Yeah, no, that’s not even close to the right answer, I’m afraid. > [@](#): > > …because self-worth is tied to dominating women, and so when one loses big time in a divorce settlement, well, that’s the exact opposite of what just happened No idea what’s in the water where you live, but I’m thinking more of the sort of guys **actualliberalnotoneofthose** is talking about - one who’s gone from having a decent house, a bit of spare time for leisure activites and a disposable income for hobbies, can spend time with their family doing family stuff etc - to sharing a flat with five people a decade younger than them, all their money goes on child support (and possibly alimony, depending where they live), they may be working multiple jobs, and they hardly get to see their kids anymore. Nothing to do with “dominating” anyone and everything to do with basically feeling their life is so spectacularly shitty and will never improve so “opting out” starts to look attractive to some people, especially those with other issues. > [@](#): > > …recklessness and disregard for personal safety is a pretty central element of toxic masculinity, actually Nice to know you think workplace accident victims are reckless and disregard their personal safety. Most workplace accidents I’ve encountered have been caused by unsafe conditions (people stacking pallets too high, shelving collapsing, uneven flooring etc) that are either no-one’s “fault” or have nothing to do with the gender of the people involved. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/55 "2017-05-30T03:48:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Apparently the movie makes reference to the fact that shelters for domestic-violence victims routinely turn away battered men and accept only battered women. Regardless of where you stand on gender equality, I hope we can all agree that that is a problematic practice. I work for a domestic violence and sexual assault shelter that does not discriminate based on gender. When we do take men into the shelter they usually get a separate wing from the women, not because of a lack of trust but because people in vulnerable situations tend to have sex with one another. We serve roughly 400 people annually in the shelter. Approximately 1% of our residents are men. They don’t come. I don’t know if that is because they are less likely to be in situations where their options are between living in danger and being homeless, or because of the higher stigma/perceived weakness, or the lack of knowledge about resources, but we don’t turn anyone away if we have space. (Sadly, we turn away many, many people due to lack of space.) Personally, I think it would be awesome if we could open a DV shelter exclusively for men, as men are likely to deal with a wide range of issues that differ from women, and thus have different needs. But in order to do that, there would have to be a demonstrated _need_ in the community. We may take men in, and but that doesn’t mean we are equally prepared to serve men’s needs as women’s needs, and as long as they make up such a minority of our service population, it would make no sense for us to invest in the resources to do that. (ETA: I don’t work directly with residents in the shelter, I’m the grants coordinator, which means I’m responsible for securing funding for it, and I know for a fact that nobody’s getting seed money for a nonprofit that serves 4 people a year.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/56 "2017-05-30T03:53:05Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > No, this was a genuine question relating to a legal issue. > > If I am going about my legal business and I am obstructed from doing that, and in addition, subjected to vile verbal abuse, what is my recourse? > > My natural inclination would be to smack that person in the mouth a couple of times. However, clearly this presents some legal issues. > > So my question was: > > 1. What are the legal ramifications of my smacking her in the mouth. > 2. In light of the fact that the police were just standing there watching and refused to take action to protect my democratic right to go about my business, what is my recourse? > > These are not questions for the pit. They are questions that require a factual answer. > Could you please move the question back to the correct forum? If I did, I would have to warn you for trolling. So consider yourself lucky I moved it instead. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/57 "2017-05-30T03:59:44Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I work for a domestic violence and sexual assault shelter that does not discriminate based on gender. When we do take men into the shelter they usually get a separate wing from the women, not because of a lack of trust but because people in vulnerable situations tend to have sex with one another. > > We serve roughly 400 people annually in the shelter. Approximately 1% of our residents are men. > > They don’t come. I don’t know if that is because they are less likely to be in situations where their options are between living in danger and being homeless, or because of the higher stigma/perceived weakness, or the lack of knowledge about resources, but we don’t turn anyone away if we have space. (Sadly, we turn away many, many people due to lack of space.) > > Personally, I think it would be awesome if we could open a DV shelter exclusively for men, as men are likely to deal with a wide range of issues that differ from women, and thus have different needs. But in order to do that, there would have to be a demonstrated _need_ in the community. We may take men in, and but that doesn’t mean we are equally prepared to serve men’s needs as women’s needs, and as long as they make up such a minority of our service population, it would make no sense for us to invest in the resources to do that. > > (ETA: I don’t work directly with residents in the shelter, I’m the grants coordinator, which means I’m responsible for securing funding for it, and I know for a fact that nobody’s getting seed money for a nonprofit that serves 4 people a year.) Thanks, that makes sense; it would be a chicken-and-egg problem, that if men don’t go to shelters then naturally shelters would pay less attention to the issue. Good info. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/58 "2017-05-30T04:00:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m not sure “Toxic Masculinity” is the reason there are far fewer men at university, or guys who get cleaned out in a divorce decide to kill themselves, or why men are more likely to be killed in industrial accidents. Men are more likely to be killed in industrial accidents because they are more likely to be hired for dangerous jobs, which usually pay more than the less dangerous jobs that women are more likely to end up with. I say this as a woman who was one of few you can find who has worked at one of these jobs (high power electronics). I don’t know how this situation could possibly be blamed on feminism. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/59 "2017-05-30T04:07:04Z")
> [@Polar\_Iceman](#): > > I just attended a showing of the documentary “The Red Pill”. This documentary on men’s rights has been attacked by feminists and all the usual suspects; and has apparently been banned in several countries. Apparently it violates the safe spaces of feminists. Name the countries where it is currently banned. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637/60 "2017-05-30T04:24:20Z")
“usual suspects” lol [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-red-pill-and-feminist-violence/787637.md?page=4)