# The reign of King Charles III of the United Kingdom **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 8, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232 "2022-09-08T18:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/421 "2022-09-18T20:38:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > While I agree with your point as to formal constitutional arrangements, I think we in the US, and folks in many other countries, are now seeing a perversely similar situation developing informally in our own countries. Sure there’s the general problem of the rose of authoritarianism and populist authoritarianism. That’s really a different issue on my view than a constitutional creation of hereditary authority. Here are the thoughts of an American who has recently become a British citizen on questions touching on that matter: [https://youtu.be/-ZNgODGw39s](https://youtu.be/-ZNgODGw39s) ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/422 "2022-09-19T12:54:55Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > how Barons are virtually lower than earthworms This always confuses me - the Baron’s were the guys who forced Prince/King John to sign the Magna Carta, so in my mind’s instinctive ordering they are the most powerful/highest rank. I guess new ranks were created after that time so that Baron Greenback became Earl Greenback and could lord it over the mere Barons? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/423 "2022-09-19T13:15:36Z")
Earls existed in King John’s time, and were above barons, but they were generally expected to side with the King. The leader of the rebel barons was Simon de Monfort, Earl of Leicester. The first Dukes were created by Edward III, a century later. > **[List of nobles and magnates of England in the 13th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nobles_and_magnates_of_England_in_the_13th_century#Earls/Counts)** > > During the 13th century England was partially ruled by Archbishops, Bishops, Earls (Counts), Barons, marcher Lords, and knights. All of these except for the knights would always hold most of their fiefs as tenant in chief. Although the kings maintained control of huge tracts of lands through judges, constables, castles, and sheriffs, the nobles of England were still powerful. This is a list of the various different nobles and magnates including both lords spiritual and lords secular. It also in... ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/424 "2022-09-19T14:00:35Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > This always confuses me - the Baron’s were the guys who forced Prince/King John to sign the Magna Carta, so in my mind’s instinctive ordering they are the most powerful/highest rank The problem is the morphing of the meaning of the word baron. It in the early 13th century it was not the precise hierarchical rank it represents in today’s peerage. Back then the baronage was a more general term for the nobility and included “greater barons” like the earls. So among the “barons” in rebellion against the king were figures like the earls of Winchester, Norfolk and Essex. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/425 "2022-09-19T17:40:49Z")
And it’s been used in modern times, usually disparagingly, as a metaphor for people with power - “trades union barons” was a regular trope in the rightwing papers. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/426 "2022-09-19T18:40:06Z")
Also for the other side, at least here, where "Industriebarone, “industry barons”, still is used sometimes by the rather left-leaning segment of the press. It’s barons all the way down… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/427 "2022-09-19T20:02:37Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’m also unsure of the implications of “except for a Queen Consort.” Queens consort have always held a unique standing in English law. For example she was the only married woman in the realm not subject to [coverture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coverture?wprov=sfla1). This was later held to apply to queens regnant out of necessity as when Mary I came to the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/428 "2022-09-19T21:28:39Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > For that matter, some very old titles, especially Scottish ones, already provide for female succession: [Margaret, 31st Countess of Mar](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_of_Mar,_31st_Countess_of_Mar), had a long career in the House of Lords, retiring only in 2020. Likewise the late [Elizabeth, Countess of Sutherland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Sutherland,_24th_Countess_of_Sutherland), and [Diana, Countess of Erroll.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Hay,_23rd_Countess_of_Erroll) When the latter’s son, Merlin Moncreiffe, inherited her titles, he changed his surname to Hay. I don’t know enough about Scots heraldic law to say, but one difference between Scottish peerages like Mar, Erroll, and Sutherland, is that the holders are also chiefs of clans, legally-recognized offices in British law. And the Lyon Court, which regulates such things, has long held that women can succeed to chiefships. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/429 "2022-09-27T22:05:43Z")
I like it: > **[King Charles III's new royal cypher unveiled by Buckingham Palace](https://www.cnn.com/style/article/king-charles-iii-royal-cypher-intl-scli-gbr/index.html)** > > Buckingham Palace has unveiled the new royal cypher of King Charles III, which will appear on British government buildings, state documents and mailboxes. God save the King! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/430 "2022-09-28T00:29:36Z")
I’m puzzled why the crown in Charles III’s cypher looks different from the one in Elizabeth II’s, as per your linked article. Hers has those bendy, um, arches extending from the band to the top, while the arches on his are just simple curves. Does that mean that his official royal crown is actually a different object from the one she wore, or did the artist just decide to change up the picture a bit? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/431 "2022-09-28T00:32:16Z")
Personal choice. Chuck is using the Tudor Crown: > **[Tudor Crown (heraldry)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_Crown_(heraldry))** > > The Tudor Crown, also known as the King's Crown or Imperial Crown, is a widely used symbol in heraldry of the United Kingdom. In use officially from 1902 to 1953 and again from 2022, it represents both the British monarch personally and "the Crown", meaning the sovereign source of governmental authority. As such, it appears on numerous official emblems in the United Kingdom, British Empire and Commonwealth. > The heraldic depictions of the royal crown have undergone many changes in their form and... Liz liked the St Edward’s Crown: > **[St Edward's Crown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Edward%27s_Crown)** > > St Edward's Crown is the centrepiece of the Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom. Named after Saint Edward the Confessor, versions of it have traditionally been used to crown English and British monarchs at their coronations since the 13th century. > The original crown was a holy relic kept at Westminster Abbey, Edward's burial place, until the regalia were either sold or melted down when Parliament abolished the monarchy in 1649, during the English Civil War. > The current St Edward's Crown was ... ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/432 "2022-09-28T00:33:20Z")
Carolus Rex ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/433 "2022-09-28T00:35:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Hers has those bendy, um, arches “Arches” is in fact the correct term. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/434 "2022-09-28T00:39:22Z")
Yeah, I looked it up and was surprised that what I was fuzzily thinking of as “arches” and a head “band” are actually the technical terms for those parts. So ERII had a stylized picture of the actual crown in her cypher and CRIII is using a design that symbolizes the crown without depicting an actual physical crown. (blinks) I think I got it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/435 "2022-09-28T00:41:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Chuck is using the Tudor Crown: > > [Tudor Crown (heraldry) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_Crown_(heraldry)) And in Scotland it will use their crown > **[File:Royal Crown of Scotland (Heraldry).svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Crown_of_Scotland_(Heraldry).svg)** ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/436 "2022-09-28T00:44:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So ERII had a stylized picture of the actual crown in her cypher and CRIII is using a design that symbolizes the crown without depicting an actual physical crown. (blinks) I think I got it. The Tudor crown was an actual, physical crown, until it was destroyed. > ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/437 "2022-09-28T00:46:03Z")
(blinks again) Ah, I see, thanks. Wow, that Cromwell. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/438 "2022-09-28T08:49:06Z")
Say what you will about him, he really knew the value of a strong brand image. Combine that with lines like “Warts and all” and “I conjure you in the bowels of Christ, consider you may be mistaken”, we can only conclude that he would have been an absolute top-grade social media poster. In this essay I will… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/439 "2022-09-28T08:54:45Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > he really knew the value of a strong brand image. No one did branding better than the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/440 "2022-09-28T17:45:15Z")
I’ve always wondered why they put fabric (I’m assuming velvet from the look) in the crown of, er, the crown. Is it to make it warmer for the wearer? Does it make the jewels sparkle more? Or? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232.md?page=23)