# The reign of King Charles III of the United Kingdom **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 8, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232 "2022-09-08T18:05:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1044 "2023-11-23T19:17:19Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Well, there’s the fact that making a will takes time, costs money, and forces one to contemplate one’s own mortality in a culture which encourages people not to do so. People also may incorrectly assume that their assets will automatically go to their next of kin. Which neatly summarises the main plot point in _Unnatural Death_ by Dorothy L. Sayers. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1045 "2023-11-23T19:27:45Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My grandfather did exactly that, and the resulting clusterfuck was immense. His children would actually have been better off had he died intestate, and everyone would have been MUCH better off had he drafted a will with a lawyer or a notary overseeing the process. I agree that it’s a terrible thing to not leave a will and it’s best to have an attorney make it so there are no problems. I can still write “I leave everything to Planned Parenthood” and sign my name on a piece of paper and tape that to the door. Famously Howard Hughes didn’t have a will and didn’t have kids. They found a bunch of cousins who all became fairly rich. There was a bit of a kerfuffle over a bastard in the lineage and whether their descendants got a piece. I think they ultimately did. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1046 "2023-11-23T19:28:32Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s pretty much impossible to have no relatives. You’d have to be a childless only child descended from parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (etc.) who were all also only children. That simply never happens. China was on the way there for a while…. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1047 "2023-11-23T19:32:44Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s pretty much impossible to have no relatives. You’d have to be a childless only child descended from parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents (etc.) who were all also only children. That simply never happens. Are you saying that the government never takes the estate, or that they limit what counts as a relative, or how hard they look for a relative? I found a pretty good answer for California but it’s still a bit vague. It might be an interesting job to track it all down. > What Happens if There is No Spouse or Children? > Intestate succession gets a bit trickier when there is no surviving spouse or children. When parents survive their child, the child’s estate is transferred to their parents. If there are no surviving parents, the estate is evenly distributed to the surviving siblings. Like children, siblings inherit equally even if they only share one parent. > When there are no surviving spouse, parents, children, grandchildren, or siblings of any degree the estate will pass to the next of kin. Aunts and uncles are considered next, then any surviving nieces or nephews. The intestate succession continues to consider heirs based on relationship, with more remote relatives receiving a smaller, or no portion. > If the probate court cannot find any other surviving heirs or beneficiaries, the estate escheats to the state of California. This rarely happens because the laws are designed to prevent it. However, it does happen that people pass without any living heirs and no will. So it’s probably pretty rare in the UK as well if they follow a similar formula ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1048 "2023-11-23T19:35:46Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Are you saying that the government never takes the estate, or that they limit what counts as a relative, or how hard they look for a relative? Some jurisdictions do put a limit on how they define next of kin (please see the legal treatise _Unnatural Death_, _supra_, for guidance on English law), and other jurisdictions don’t put a limit. Here’s the guidebook put out by the Ontario Public Guardian and Trustee: > **[300621.pdf](https://www.publications.gov.on.ca/store/20170501121/Free_Download_Files/300621.pdf)** > > 157.46 KB And here’s the relevant part: > [@](#): > > **15. Who is entitled to the money from estates administered by the OPGT?** > > The _Succession Law Reform Act_ sets out, in order of priority, which next of-kin are entitled to inherit if a deceased person did not make a Will (this is called “intestate”). Even very distant relatives may be entitled to inherit if there are no next-of-kin closer in relationship. > > If the deceased did make a Will, the persons named as beneficiaries in the Will are entitled to the money in accordance with the deceased’s instructions. > > The OPGT conducts a careful and thorough search for heirs. If none can be found within 10 years, the money is transferred from the OPGT to the provincial government’s general account. However, it can still be claimed by heirs who come forward after that. **Entitlement to the money that is transferred is never lost.** > > **16. How does the OPGT find the heirs?** > The OPGT makes extensive efforts to find heirs when it administers an estate. > > Sometimes the next-of-kin can be identified by reviewing the deceased’s personal papers. Sometimes they are identified by others, such as the deceased’s caregivers, lawyer or friends. In these cases, it is usually a fairly simple matter of determining which of the next-of-kin are entitled by law to inherit, and then making contact and receiving proof of their identity and their relationship to the deceased. > > In many cases, however, it is very hard to identify and locate next-of-kin. **The OPGT often retains professional genealogists to trace the deceased’s family tree.** These experts use a variety of techniques including searching birth, marriage, death notices and records in Canada and abroad. So, sounds pretty thorough, in Ontario at least. (I’ve put bolding on a couple of points in the two paragraphs.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1049 "2023-11-23T19:37:42Z")
This is fascinating. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1050 "2023-11-23T19:40:24Z")
The Sayers book was titled _The Dawson Pedigree_ in the US, which gives you a hint as to the issues involved. Another issue, of course, is that people are mobile. Distant kin may not even know about that 2nd cousin twice removed living in Black Lake, Saskatchewan, let alone that they’ve died. That may especially be the case if the deceased was an immigrant to Canada, and their next of kin is in their home country on the other side of the world. The issue may not be whether is kin; it’s trying to find them that is the difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1051 "2023-11-23T19:41:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s pretty much impossible to have no relatives It’s very possible (and quite probable) to die with no known relatives or friends. Happens all the time. Everyone has relatives. Far from everyone has known relatives, and the state can only relate to **known** relatives ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1052 "2023-11-23T19:46:48Z")
Not true— **Northern\_Piper** mentioned hiring professional genealogists. An individual may not know about any relatives, but the state has the resources and motivation to track down the unknown ones. There are childless orphans and other people whose documentation is incomplete, making it more difficult to locate these relatives, but there’s also DNA testing. (As long as we’re talking about relatives rather than family.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1053 "2023-11-23T19:50:07Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My grandfather did exactly that, and the resulting clusterfuck was immense. His children would actually have been better off had he died intestate, and everyone would have been MUCH better off had he drafted a will with a lawyer or a notary overseeing the process. A long time ago I was marginally involved in a case like that, as a junior lawyer. The litigation was still going on 10 years after the death. Please folks, go to a lawyer, please. Wills are generally pretty cheap. Lawyers who do wills on a regular basis will be aware of issues (eg tax implications, child support) that the average citizen isn’t aware could come into play, and the problems that could arise if you do it yourself. It’s worth the money, to ensure that your assets go where you want, and to avoid putting your family through a grinder like DrDrake mentions. (And no, I don’t do wills and estates, so I’m not trying to drum up business. 😁 ) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1054 "2023-11-23T20:05:17Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It’s pretty much impossible to have no relatives. As has been said, "Only if NO relatives **are found** It’s possible that no living relatives **may be found**. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1055 "2023-11-23T20:41:21Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > … And I agree, it’s my understanding that if someone dies without a will and without apparent heirs, then the Public Trustee will do a search to see if they can track down any heirs. Earlier this year I got a letter from an attorney to the effect that I’d been identified as an heir to the estate of a woman who had died intestate and with no known relatives. Since a) I’d never heard of her, and b) the only listed asset was a house that could charitably be described as “ramshackle,” I contacted the attorney and asked to be removed — partly because I felt the second reason was going to result in a quagmire, but primarily because of the first reason: I was not at all comfortable with the idea of benefiting from an estate to which I had no claim. Turned out my request cost me around $100,000 — the house sold for far more than I would have guessed — but I can live with that. (Apologies if this is too much of a hijack. Just trying to elaborate on @Northern_Piper’s statement.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1056 "2023-11-23T20:53:00Z")
@Aspenglow - my humble apologies. I had thought this thread was in MPSIMS. I see I’ve turned a political debate into a _salon_ to discuss points of law and Golden Age murder mysteries. OOps. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1057 "2023-11-23T20:55:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The Duchy of Lancaster is not part of the Crown, in the sense of the British government. It is property owned by the King in his personal capacity and personal profit. Yes, well, it’s weird. The Duchy is not part of the Crown estates.The duchy consists of a portfolio of lands, properties, and assets held in trust for the sovereign and royal family. wiki- _The duchy is administered on behalf of the sovereign by the [chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancellor_of_the_Duchy_of_Lancaster), a government minister appointed by the sovereign on the advice of the prime minister, and by the clerk of the council.[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-16) The former position is sometimes held by a cabinet minister, but is always a ministerial post. For at least the last two centuries the duchy has been run by a deputy; the chancellor has rarely had any significant duties pertaining to its management but is available as a [minister without portfolio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_without_portfolio_(United_Kingdom)) and is answerable to Parliament for the effective running of the estate.[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-bogdanor-17)[[18]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-departmental-18)[[19]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-written-19)[[20]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-20)_ … _The duchy is administered on behalf of the sovereign by the [chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancellor_of_the_Duchy_of_Lancaster), a government minister appointed by the sovereign on the advice of the prime minister, and by the clerk of the council.[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-16) The former position is sometimes held by a cabinet minister, but is always a ministerial post. For at least the last two centuries the duchy has been run by a deputy; the chancellor has rarely had any significant duties pertaining to its management but is available as a [minister without portfolio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minister_without_portfolio_(United_Kingdom)) and is answerable to Parliament for the effective running of the estate.[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-bogdanor-17)[[18]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-departmental-18)[[19]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-written-19)[[20]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-20)… As the duchy is an inalienable asset of the Crown held in trust for future sovereigns, the current sovereign is not entitled to the portfolio’s capital or capital profits.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-FAQ-2)[[40]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-report-40) The Duchy of Lancaster is not subject to tax, but as the monarch has voluntarily paid both income and capital gains tax since 1993 income from the duchy is taxed in practice.[[22]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-finance-22)[[41]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Lancaster#cite_note-taxation-41)_ So, its not quite the same as Personal property. It is a trust. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > In some areas it goes to the crown > > Nope. > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > So yeah, the Crown gets the money > > No it doesn’t. This is not helpful. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > This may help for those who are not familiar with terminology, and do not understand what “The Crown” means: This is. But I see the term "the crown used also to refer to the Royals. So, forgive a yank if he is confused, because it is confusing. Okay, so we dont know much about King Charles or even Sunak. But this is not new. So who would you trust more- QE2 or Boris Johnson? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1058 "2023-11-23T21:02:51Z")
Even dead, her. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1059 "2023-11-23T21:07:52Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I see I’ve turned a political debate into a _salon_ to discuss points of law and Golden Age murder mysteries. I say it was the Duke of Lancaster in the study with the lead pipe. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1060 "2023-11-23T21:08:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So who would you trust more- QE2 or Boris Johnson? The question poses an irrelevant distinction. The Queen / King reigns but does not rule. In terms of running the country, the choice was between Boris and Jeremy Corbin. I certainly agree that the British democratic process somehow coughed up one of the worst possible pairings in that case, but the democratic process is superior to a monarch exercising substantial powers. If the British don’t like what Sunak is up to, they will have an option next year, just like in any other democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1061 "2023-11-23T21:08:33Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Sadly no one ever listens to me 🫤. Have you tried making your recommendations at the head of an army of 100,000 mounted archers? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1062 "2023-11-23T21:10:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I say it was the Duke of Lancaster in the study with the lead pipe. I laughed! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232/1063 "2023-11-23T21:14:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But I see the term "the crown used also to refer to the Royals. So, forgive a yank if he is confused, because it is confusing. Yes, “the Crown” is used as the shorthand term for the government. It’s not a reference to the current wearer of the Crown. So, getting back to the point in issue here, _bona vacantia_ going to the Duchy of Lancaster is not the same as going to the Crown, which is how they are handled elsewhere in England. Agree that the Duchy is an odd thing, since it is designed to give personal revenue to the monarch, and yet is administered by government officials. (I think Churchill was Chancellor of the Duchy at one point.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-reign-of-king-charles-iii-of-the-united-kingdom/971232.md?page=54)