# The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146 "2017-01-02T17:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/321 "2017-01-21T03:36:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Would that be because Dick Nixon (_before he dicks you_) was such an honest, and upright, politician before he OK’d the White House Plumbers, and then CREEP’s (Committee for the Re-Election of the President) burglary and cover up. Excuse me. You seem to have mistaken me for some kind of Nixon supporter. I am not, and never have been, a fan of Mr. Nixon. I think he was loathsome and creepy. Nonetheless, he did in deed support something that I myself favor. Merely because I approved of one thing he attempted does not mean I support anything else or anything else he did. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/322 "2017-01-21T03:39:29Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > However, I read the “even Dick Nixon” line not as saying that Nixon had all good ideas or morals, but that a man who was considered quite conservative in his time and a strong anti-Communist was proposing single payer. ^ This. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think the point was that the Watergate shit hit the fan before Nixon had a chance to see if he could do it. ^ And this. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/323 "2017-01-21T04:03:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Merely because I approved of one thing he attempted does not mean I support anything else or anything else he did. Isn’t this what has been used to vilify anyone on this board who supported Trump based on tax policies or abortion or any other single issue item? I’m pretty sure I read that a vote for Trump was a vote for bigotry and racism, regardless of the single issue reason that one would vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/324 "2017-01-21T04:11:30Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Isn’t this what has been used to vilify anyone on this board who supported Trump based on tax policies or abortion or any other single issue item? > > I’m pretty sure I read that a vote for Trump was a vote for bigotry and racism, regardless of the single issue reason that one would vote for him. You know, everything is not equivalent to everything else. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/325 "2017-01-21T04:13:27Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > You know, everything is not equivalent to everything else. :rolleyes: You know, lots of things are equivalent to other things. :rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/326 "2017-01-21T04:31:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Isn’t this what has been used to vilify anyone on this board who supported Trump based on tax policies or abortion or any other single issue item? Not by me - I prefer a more nuanced approach to reality. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/327 "2017-01-21T04:35:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Not by me - I prefer a more nuanced approach to reality. So you are saying it’s possible to agree with someone on one issue while simultaneously disagreeing with the rest of their positions? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/328 "2017-01-21T04:55:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > You know, lots of things are equivalent to other things. :rolleyes::rolleyes: Lots =/= everything. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/329 "2017-01-21T13:05:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > So you are saying it’s possible to agree with someone on one issue while simultaneously disagreeing with the rest of their positions? Well, I can do that - it seems may other people can not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/330 "2017-01-21T14:58:13Z")
Wanna know who else has been [strongly in favor](http://ijr.com/2016/02/537107-5-times-donald-trump-praised-socialized-healthcare/) of single payer? > [@](#): > > We must have universal healthcare…I’m a conservative on most issues but a liberal on this one. We should not hear so many stories of families ruined by healthcare expenses… > > Doctors might be paid less than they are now, as is the case in Canada, but they would be able to treat more patients because of the reduction in their paperwork… > > The Canadian plan also helps Canadians live longer and healthier than Americans. There are fewer medical lawsuits, less loss of labor to sickness, and lower costs to companies paying for the medical care of their employees. If the program were in place in Massachusetts in 1999 it would have reduced administrative costs by $2.5 million. We need, as a nation, to reexamine the single-payer plan, as many individual states are doing. That’s right, Trump’s ghostwriter! Let’s put him in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/331 "2017-01-21T15:04:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I wouldn’t need to be argumentative if you stopped posting utter nonsensical drivel like this, the kind of idiocy that comes straight out of the Republican and AHIP playbooks. How the hell do you think every civilized country in the world achieves universal health care for all its citizens regardless of ability to pay? Think about it for a moment, if you can. It sure as hell isn’t thanks to the avaricious mercenaries who run private health insurance empires, whose only accountability is to their owners and stockholders, and who have been content on many occasions to let their own customers die in fulfillment of their fiduciary responsibility to make a buck. Read the part of my post you quoted and think about _that_ for a moment, if you can. Those are accurate statements and as simple a truth as truth gets around here – I should have it bronzed. The government has had many opportunities over the years to institute price controls in medicine like other countries have, and it has pointedly not done so. It’s not likely to happen now either. Possible, but unlikely. And we are not talking about two different things, just two different perceptions. You are willing to absolve hospitals of any blame for kicking out patients for example, even though hospitals are businesses (not just businesses, conglomerates), and you want some brokered agreement between those same businesses and that same government to fix the mess we’re in, when they’ve been colluding for years to create it. There is a reason why people are conflating lack of insurance with lack of doctor visits all over the place, like I said, I mean there’s got to be, but you are seeing moustache-twirling villains at work where I’m seeing…insurance. A system created by the people and used by the people to gain access and mitigate risk when they are sick or injured, because such a thing is needed. What we do have is a government that is weaker than the hugely profitable health care industry that we’re supposing it can regulate, but stronger than the insurance industry that it tried to utilize as a means to lower health care costs. (ACA.) And sure enough we’re not seeing lower health care costs - we are seeing more expensive insurance. This would be a great time to acknowledge a problem bigger than Blue Cross/Blue Shield, but you and others, for reasons I cannot fathom, are putting a lot of effort into _not_ doing that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/332 "2017-01-21T15:33:22Z")
Because Blue Cross/Blue Shield are no more than transactional middlemen, parasites if you will, who exist for no reason other to make a profit. Let me ask: Would you buy _food_ this way? By purchasing the right, by means of a monthly payment, to then purchase specific types of food at specific, possibly discounted but who knows?, dollar amounts… which then may or may not be approved by the company from whom you are buying your food plan? What other goods and services do you want to see provided as the American health insurance industry “provides” health insurance? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/333 "2017-01-21T16:52:11Z")
So one of his very first actions was to issue an executive order that says (in the words of The New York Times; I can’t find the actual text of the order on the [WhiteHouse.gov](http://WhiteHouse.gov) website), “gave federal agencies wide latitude to change, delay or waive provisions of the law that they deemed overly costly for insurers, drug makers, doctors, patients or states.” So how can this possibly work? There may be aspects of the law that make things costly for insurers or doctors, while lowering costs for patients or states. There may be aspects of the law that increase costs for states, while lowering costs for insurers. To me, this exemplifies his lack of knowledge and experience and how it affect how he will govern. It’s easy for him to say that he’s going to repeat the ACA and replace it with something better. But it’s much harder to actually go through the process of defining a better law. Mario Cuomo once said, “You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.” Don’t get me wrong; the ACA is a flawed law and could be improved. The question is whether the Trump administration can negotiate a better approach. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/334 "2017-01-21T17:00:15Z")
Well, of course they could! ACA is a misbegotten hybrid of conflicting principles. Trump has promised health care for everybody, this has been clarified to mean “health care _access_ for everybody”. So, rest assured, as long as you can afford to live, you will be permitted to do so! Problem? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/335 "2017-01-21T18:01:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So one of his very first actions was to issue an executive order that says (in the words of The New York Times; I can’t find the actual text of the order on the [WhiteHouse.gov](http://WhiteHouse.gov) website), “gave federal agencies wide latitude to change, delay or waive provisions of the law that they deemed overly costly for insurers, drug makers, doctors, patients or states.” So how can this possibly work? There may be aspects of the law that make things costly for insurers or doctors, while lowering costs for patients or states. There may be aspects of the law that increase costs for states, while lowering costs for insurers. To me, this exemplifies his lack of knowledge and experience and how it affect how he will govern. It’s easy for him to say that he’s going to repeat the ACA and replace it with something better. But it’s much harder to actually go through the process of defining a better law. > > Mario Cuomo once said, “You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.” > > Don’t get me wrong; the ACA is a flawed law and could be improved. The question is whether the Trump administration can negotiate a better approach. Sounds like he gave his cabinet the authority to shut down the ACA, doesn’t it? Aren’t they the ones who run the “federal agencies”? ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/336 "2017-01-21T18:15:20Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Let me ask: Would you buy _food_ this way? By purchasing the right, by means of a monthly payment, to then purchase specific types of food at specific, possibly discounted but who knows?, dollar amounts… which then may or may not be approved by the company from whom you are buying your food plan? What if a turkey dinner cost more than my paycheck and a gallon of milk was $34.99? You tell me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/337 "2017-01-21T18:15:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > So one of his very first actions was to issue an executive order that says (in the words of The New York Times; I can’t find the actual text of the order on the [WhiteHouse.gov](http://WhiteHouse.gov) website), “gave federal agencies wide latitude to change, delay or waive provisions of the law that they deemed overly costly for insurers, drug makers, doctors, patients or states.” So how can this possibly work? There may be aspects of the law that make things costly for insurers or doctors, while lowering costs for patients or states. There may be aspects of the law that increase costs for states, while lowering costs for insurers. To me, this exemplifies his lack of knowledge and experience and how it affect how he will govern. It’s easy for him to say that he’s going to repeat the ACA and replace it with something better. But it’s much harder to actually go through the process of defining a better law. > > > > Mario Cuomo once said, “You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.” > > > > Don’t get me wrong; the ACA is a flawed law and could be improved. The question is whether the Trump administration can negotiate a better approach. > > Sounds like he gave his cabinet the authority to shut down the ACA, doesn’t it? Aren’t they the ones who run the “federal agencies”? Yes, they do. And what does that have to do with what I said? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/338 "2017-01-21T20:20:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Isn’t this what has been used to vilify anyone on this board who supported Trump based on tax policies or abortion or any other single issue item? > > I’m pretty sure I read that a vote for Trump was a vote for bigotry and racism, regardless of the single issue reason that one would vote for him. Do you think the person you quoted would vote Nixon? Fuck no. Because that would be _stupid_. Just like the disgustingly single-minded tunnel-vision gun fetishists who decided that _everything else_ was less important than their ability to jerk off to the latest and greatest in murder weapons. The point is not “Nixon had this one great idea, so we should ignore everything else and vote for him”, it’s “_Even Nixon had this idea_, and he sucked ass in almost all other regards.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/339 "2017-01-21T22:31:06Z")
The Republicans are going to use Trump to get rid of the ACA, which he’ll be all too happy to take credit for. They will then see how it goes. If it goes south, they will blame Trump for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/340 "2017-01-22T18:17:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So one of his very first actions was to issue an executive order that says (in the words of The New York Times; I can’t find the actual text of the order on the [WhiteHouse.gov](http://WhiteHouse.gov) website), “gave federal agencies wide latitude to change, delay or waive provisions of the law that they deemed overly costly for insurers, drug makers, doctors, patients or states.” So how can this possibly work? There may be aspects of the law that make things costly for insurers or doctors, while lowering costs for patients or states. There may be aspects of the law that increase costs for states, while lowering costs for insurers. To me, this exemplifies his lack of knowledge and experience and how it affect how he will govern. It’s easy for him to say that he’s going to repeat the ACA and replace it with something better. But it’s much harder to actually go through the process of defining a better law. > > Mario Cuomo once said, “You campaign in poetry but you govern in prose.” > > Don’t get me wrong; the ACA is a flawed law and could be improved. The question is whether the Trump administration can negotiate a better approach. This will allow them to pull back the good parts and push the bad parts, to make it very clear how evil it is, so it MUST be repealed ASAP! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=18)