# The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146 "2017-01-02T17:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/521 "2017-04-10T15:30:21Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > In Iowa today Aetna announced it was pulling out of the individual exchanges. A few days ago Wellmark (Blue Cross/Blue Shield–the largest health insurer in the state) announced it was pulling out. There is a third small insurer; I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes too–leaving no insurers for the state. A significant factor mentioned in the articles was the Trump decision not to enforce mandates. > [http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20170406/NEWS/170409947/nearly-all-iowa-counties-are-down-to-a-single-insurer-as-aetna-calls](http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20170406/NEWS/170409947/nearly-all-iowa-counties-are-down-to-a-single-insurer-as-aetna-calls) Mandate enforcement aside, I imagine more insurers would be inclined to participate if the fate of the law wasn’t so consistently precarious. They probably don’t like the idea of investing in the promotion of the products and the hard costs of expanding networks and setting up contracts for things like mental health services when there is no guarantee that the law wont be repealed at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/522 "2017-04-10T15:53:45Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Mandate enforcement aside, I imagine more insurers would be inclined to participate if the fate of the law wasn’t so consistently precarious. They probably don’t like the idea of investing in the promotion of the products and the hard costs of expanding networks and setting up contracts for things like mental health services when there is no guarantee that the law wont be repealed at any time. Missed edit window and I wanted to add a rant. Jeez, I wish this country would grow up already. Forget Canada and Europe, even countries like Russia, China and even the hellhole nemesis on our southern border,Mexico have some version of universal healthcare. Costa Rica and Egypt, too. > **[List of countries with universal health care](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_universal_health_care)** > > Government-guaranteed health care for all citizens of a country, sometimes called universal health care, is a broad concept that has been implemented in several ways. The common denominator for all such programs is some form of government action aimed at broadly extending access to health care and setting minimum standards. Most implement universal health care through legislation, regulation, and taxation. Legislation and regulation direct what care must be provided, to whom, and on what basis... But I have the misfortune to live in a country where a too-large group of soulless ideologues have decided that any assistance the government gives to any individual is some sort of communistic income redistribution. That and a NO, WE CAN’T attitude that claims UHC is financially an impossible goal for the US, despite the fact that countries like Hong Kong, Thailand, Israel, Tunisia as well as most every country in the developed world has managed to achieve this goal. It’s going to be AMERICA LAST on this one. What a country!! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/523 "2017-04-10T18:36:30Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Mandate enforcement aside, I imagine more insurers would be inclined to participate if the fate of the law wasn’t so consistently precarious. They probably don’t like the idea of investing in the promotion of the products and the hard costs of expanding networks and setting up contracts for things like mental health services when there is no guarantee that the law wont be repealed at any time. ACA/Obamacare forgot to mandate the participation of insurance companies. Companies can still withdraw from marketplaces. Companies will participate A) if they can make a profit and B) if the rules, and regulations, were more clearly spelled out, and a whole lot less confusing. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/524 "2017-04-10T22:21:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > ACA/Obamacare forgot to mandate the participation of insurance companies. Companies can still withdraw from marketplaces. Would you be in favor of such a mandate? No? Then an excellent alternative would be the public option that was originally proposed and which would have been available everywhere. Except that the troglodytes you support killed it. The idea, of course, is that it wasn’t the well-being of human beings that was important, it was the well-being of the insurance industry. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Companies will participate A) if they can make a profit and B) if the rules, and regulations, were more clearly spelled out, and a whole lot less confusing. I agree with you that the rules are confusing as hell, but you need to understand why. Where I live, the rules are actually quite simple, and here they are: Rule 1: If you need health care that your doctor deems medically necessary, then the public health care system pays for 100% of it, 100% of the time. The billing institution is paid 100% of the billed amount via direct funds transfer to their account from the public insurance plan. The patient never pays a dime. Rule 2: There are no other rules. I hold out some vague hope that even you might be able to understand this fundamental concept, but now that I recall climate change discussions with you, maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/525 "2017-04-10T22:33:28Z")
At least with climate change, there are complexities involved that can be above the head of the layman. Health care counter examples already exist, and have for decades, and all conservatives can do is sputter about how it OBVIOUSLY won’t work here because reasons and how it’s going to fail in those other countries any second now because reasons. Reality has a liberal bias, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/526 "2017-04-11T15:24:11Z")
A small but encouraging glimmer of hope. The Administration will continue the cost-sharing [subsidies](https://nyti.ms/2okTyFs) even though Congress disagrees. Now if they would enforce the mandate. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/527 "2017-04-11T21:29:39Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Then an excellent alternative would be the public option that was originally proposed and which would have been available everywhere. If things were different, things would be different. > [@wolfpup](#): > > I agree with you that the rules are confusing as hell, but you need to understand why. Where I live, the rules are actually quite simple, and here they are: > > The patient never pays a dime. (post shortened) Wow, what a great system. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/528 "2017-04-12T00:16:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > If things were different, things would be different. So let’s make them different, huh? > [@](#): > > Wow, what a great system. Like that, for instance. This isn’t hard unless you \*make \*it hard. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/529 "2017-04-12T14:41:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So let’s make them different, huh? (post shortened) The Democrats created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare all by themselves. When they were majority party. The voters have corrected that. If people have a problem not being able to keep their doctor, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with rising plan costs, and increasing deductibles, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with insurance companies abandoning some areas of the country, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people believe that “the patient never pays a dime”, well, those people are simply delusional. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/530 "2017-04-12T14:43:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > The Democrats created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare all by themselves. When they were majority party. The voters have corrected that. > > If people have a problem not being able to keep their doctor, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with rising plan costs, and increasing deductibles, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with insurance companies abandoning some areas of the country, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people believe that “the patient never pays a dime”, well, those people are simply delusional. The Republicans were unable to come up with something better. It’s their baby now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/531 "2017-04-12T15:02:15Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > The Democrats created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare all by themselves. When they were majority party. The voters have corrected that. > > If people have a problem not being able to keep their doctor, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with rising plan costs, and increasing deductibles, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people have a problem with insurance companies abandoning some areas of the country, it’s the Democrats who are responsible. If people believe that “the patient never pays a dime”, well, those people are simply delusional. So you don’t believe that the Republicans have any responsibility to the American people, even when they are in power? If things go poorly for the American people with regards to health care, do you believe that the Republicans bear no responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/532 "2017-04-12T15:04:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you don’t believe that the Republicans have any responsibility to the American people, even when they are in power? If things go poorly for the American people with regards to health care, do you believe that the Republicans bear no responsibility? It’s the Party of Personal Responsibility. Some other person is responsible. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/533 "2017-04-12T15:12:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The Republicans were unable to come up with something better. It’s their baby now. Hahahaha. It seems some Democrats no longer want credit for ACA/Obamacare. Didn’t it turn out to be as wonderful as promised? It’s still called Obamacare, and Obamacare is still the law of the land. Whether you like it, or not. Or whether Obama (wherever he’s hiding) likes it, or not. The Republicans weren’t able to compromise on a working solution. But they tried. AFAIK, good government is based on an ability to find a working compromise. The Democrats chose to stand on the sidelines, basically ignoring the complaints by their constituents to improve “Obamacare’s” flaws. _Fuck you people - Obamacare is perfect - shut up and enjoy it._ As costs to the public continue to go up, and insurance companies abandon areas of the country, I’ll predict that the number of voters who turn out to vote in general elections will also go up. The Democrats might be hoping that the voters won’t remember that it was only the Democrats who created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/534 "2017-04-12T15:19:29Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. It seems some Democrats no longer want credit for ACA/Obamacare. Didn’t it turn out to be as wonderful as promised? > > It’s still called Obamacare, and Obamacare is still the law of the land. Whether you like it, or not. Or whether Obama (wherever he’s hiding) likes it, or not. > > The Republicans weren’t able to compromise on a working solution. But they tried. AFAIK, good government is based on an ability to find a working compromise. > > The Democrats chose to stand on the sidelines, basically ignoring the complaints by their constituents to improve “Obamacare’s” flaws. _Fuck you people - Obamacare is perfect - shut up and enjoy it._ > > As costs to the public continue to go up, and insurance companies abandon areas of the country, I’ll predict that the number of voters who turn out to vote in general elections will also go up. > > The Democrats might be hoping that the voters won’t remember that it was only the Democrats who created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare. Remember how you crowed that the GOP has the majority in both Houses? There should have been no problem “repealing and replacing” _as they promised_. The Democrats weren’t needed. There were plenty of Democrats who have said there were flaws that needed fixing yet the GOP stood in the way until it was their turn. And they promptly face-planted. Couldn’t even get it to a vote. And let’s not forget they had _seven years_ to come up with a better plan. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/535 "2017-04-12T16:38:05Z")
The ACA is quite popular now. I’m sure Democrats would be happy to work with Republicans in making further improvements to the law. Unfortunately, Paul Ryan has stated that he opposes working with Democrats to try and improve the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/536 "2017-04-12T18:02:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Remember how you crowed that the GOP has the majority in both Houses? There should have been no problem “repealing and replacing” _as they promised_. > The Democrats weren’t needed. > > There were plenty of Democrats who have said there were flaws that needed fixing yet the GOP stood in the way until it was their turn. And they promptly face-planted. > Couldn’t even get it to a vote. > And let’s not forget they had _seven years_ to come up with a better plan. **doorhinge** has had five years to make one intelligent comment. A time frame that, in retrospect, seems overly ambitious. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/537 "2017-04-12T22:40:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The Democrats created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare all by themselves. When they were majority party. The voters have corrected that. And yet we still have ACA, and it’s got majority popularity now too, and still growing. The party of Fuck Off still has nothing more to offer than that. So what have you got besides whining? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/538 "2017-04-12T22:49:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. It seems some Democrats no longer want credit for ACA/Obamacare. Didn’t it turn out to be as wonderful as promised? > > It’s still called Obamacare, and Obamacare is still the law of the land. Whether you like it, or not. Or whether Obama (wherever he’s hiding) likes it, or not. > > The Republicans weren’t able to compromise on a working solution. But they tried. AFAIK, good government is based on an ability to find a working compromise. > > The Democrats chose to stand on the sidelines, basically ignoring the complaints by their constituents to improve “Obamacare’s” flaws. _Fuck you people - Obamacare is perfect - shut up and enjoy it._ > > As costs to the public continue to go up, and insurance companies abandon areas of the country, I’ll predict that the number of voters who turn out to vote in general elections will also go up. > > The Democrats might be hoping that the voters won’t remember that it was only the Democrats who created, and passed, ACA/Obamacare. Holy fuck, you really are as stupid as people here say, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/539 "2017-04-13T16:05:56Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Remember how you crowed that the GOP has the majority in both Houses? There should have been no problem “repealing and replacing” _as they promised_. > The Democrats weren’t needed. > > There were plenty of Democrats who have said there were flaws that needed fixing yet the GOP stood in the way until it was their turn. And they promptly face-planted. > Couldn’t even get it to a vote. > And let’s not forget they had _seven years_ to come up with a better plan. Just to be clear, I have stated the fact that Republicans now control both houses of Congress. The voters have spoken. I have not said, “There should have been no problem “repealing and replacing” as they promised”. Better luck next time. 😃 Are you suggesting that elected Democrats lost their seats in Congress because the voters were sooooo happy with ACA/Obamacare? The Democrats could have created a better bill. The Democrats could have fixed the flaws while they had the majority. Conservative, and Republican, voters elected representatives to represent them, and not necessarily the GOP. Those voters, and their elected representatives, seem to want ACA/Obamacare handled/corrected in different ways. The elected Republicans failed to reach a consensus on how to handle ACA/Obamacare. Apparently, more work needs to be done in order to reach an acceptable compromise. Are those voters so disappointed with their elected reps failed effort that they will replace them at the first opportunity? Will Democrat voters be so enamored with the rising out of pocket costs, and reduced choice of providers associated with ACA/Obamacare that they will give majority control back to the Democrats in 2018? 2020? 2022? 2024? The Democrat Party created ACA/Obamacare, and it was the Democrat Party who foisted it on the American consumer. Why would the Democrats want to share the credit with anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/540 "2017-04-13T20:29:20Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Why would the Democrats want to share the credit with anyone else? If the leader of the Republican party is threatening to [tank the program on purpose](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/donald-trump-obamacare-subsidies-negotiate-237174) then, they don’t have to share it because it’s all theirs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=28)