# The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146 "2017-01-02T17:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1181 "2017-07-30T20:06:53Z")
Well, the entirety of the Republican Media Complex was hellbent on painting it as the worst thing in the world, slavery, treason and the death of America. They went all-in on it and convinced their base of it. Now they can’t deliver and at least some of those people are figuring out that, hey, I benefit from this! Those same people would still spit at the mention of Obama and many of them are still not grasping the vast gulf between what they were told and what they are experiencing. (“I’m on the Affordable Care Act, NOT OBUMMERCARE!!!”) And a lot of them bought into Trump’s “we’re going to cover everyone” bullshit. Trump is only hellbent on repealing it precisely because it is Obama’s key legacy and as we can see, it is his primary goal as President to destroy everything Obama did. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1182 "2017-07-30T20:09:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So when does life become a glorious cycle of song? 😉 > [@elucidator](#): > > We have to buy the world a Coke. _“We have to buy the world.”_ – a Koch… ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1183 "2017-07-30T20:16:22Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Does anyone have a handle on how important it is to the Republican base that the ACA be repealed? > > I’ve heard time after time some GOP congresscritter exclaim, “This is a promise we made to our voters! We can’t NOT give it to them!” > > But the popularity of the ACA has risen sharply since the election, and I can’t help but think that a lot of people who were proclaiming so loudly that it needed to be repealed were doing so because they believed that it would be replaced by a plan that would get them better insurance at a lower cost. I can’t help but think that some of these people are now saying, “If you can’t give us the great plan you promised, then don’t take away what we have.” > > Trump is twittershouting that the Pubs have to try again and keep trying until the ACA is repealed. McConnell said that it was time to move on, but some other GOP congresscritters have been saying they need to give repeal another chance. > > If they don’t manage to repeal it, what are estimates of how big the blowback will be at the polls? > > Also, I seem to remember that there was a procedural reason why they had to do healthcare before they tackle the budget. I’m thinking (but of course could easily be wrong) that by doing it first they could do it through reconciliation, but if they pass a budget first that’s no longer available to them. > > If I’m right, does this mean that farting around with ACA repeal is going to push back dealing with reforming the tax code and setting the budget? If so, how long will they be willing to do so? I don’t believe this is really about blowback at the polls, although there will be some of that among Trump’s most rabid supporters. This is about blowback from big money donors. Well-heeled slime like the Mercers and the Kochs have made it clear that if they don’t get their longed-for tax cuts, they will primary Republicans in upcoming elections. It’s why Republicans – who know their abortions of “health care reform” (read “tax cut”) will do more damage to their constituencies than to anyone else – continued to try so hard to pass… something. Anything. As I understand it, in order to do their tax “reform” (again, read “tax cut”), they must find the money to do it somewhere in order to do it by reconciliation (51 votes). The plan was to find the money with “health care reform.” IOW, tax cuts don’t happen for “tax reform” until tax cuts have already happened with “health care reform.” They’re in a pickle, all right. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1184 "2017-07-30T20:50:10Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > He’s going to do something, I’m sure of that. I guarantee it. > > [ol] > [li]He lost this one - **LOSER** [/li][li]He is being rebuked on the Russia sanctions, while Browder explains to everyone Wh[/li][li]Y Trump and Putin wanted the sanctions lifted - and it’s pretty fucking ugly - **LOSER** [/li][li]The military told him to stuff his “ban” up his ass - **LOSER** [/li][li]And Meuller chugs on with his investigation - **LOSER** into his financial shenanigans - **LOSER** [/li][li]And the Boy Scouts are apologizing for the way he acted at their jamboree - **LOSER** [/li][/ol] He must have gotten tired of winning. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1185 "2017-07-30T20:54:08Z")
> [@Anny\_Middon](#): > > Also, I seem to remember that there was a procedural reason why they had to do healthcare before they tackle the budget. I’m thinking (but of course could easily be wrong) that by doing it first they could do it through reconciliation, but if they pass a budget first that’s no longer available to them. They didn’t have to start with healthcare, and in fact they’re now being criticized by some of their media supporters for doing so. But there was a big reason for it: The health care repeal bills would have cut a lot of the money that funded Medicaid, and that in turn would have given them more room on the budget. Now they have to go to the budget without the benefit of those spending cuts they had planned on, which makes the budgeting that much harder. (At least, that’s what I seem to remember from surfing news stories.) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1186 "2017-07-30T21:15:37Z")
By the way, with the title of the thread being “ **The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-by-step, Inch-by-inch** ,” should we conclude that it’s asymptotic, or is it that Zeno is involved? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1187 "2017-07-31T01:29:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > _“We have to buy the world.”_ – a Koch… I thought it was the other way around? The Kochs are buying a world of influence. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1188 "2017-07-31T14:04:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would love to see a Time Magazine cover with his ugly mug on it, and a huge font proclaiming: > > President Loser Someone told me it’s pretty easy to make a fake _Time_ cover, so there’s that option. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1189 "2017-07-31T14:07:25Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > By the way, with the title of the thread being “ **The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-by-step, Inch-by-inch** ,” should we conclude that it’s asymptotic, or is it that Zeno is involved? Ha! Are we down to **Planck-distance-by-Planck-distance** yet? ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1190 "2017-07-31T14:23:32Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > They didn’t have to start with healthcare, and in fact they’re now being criticized by some of their media supporters for doing so. > > But there was a big reason for it: The health care repeal bills would have cut a lot of the money that funded Medicaid, and that in turn would have given them more room on the budget. > > Now they have to go to the budget without the benefit of those spending cuts they had planned on, which makes the budgeting that much harder. > > (At least, that’s what I seem to remember from surfing news stories.) That sounds right. But I’m still confused. They pass a budget – doesn’t it have to include all projected expenditures? Can they pass a budget that leaves out Medicaid? Because if they can’t, how can they then use reconciliation as a mechanism to repeal the ACA? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1191 "2017-07-31T14:31:00Z")
Nope. Dubya ran his entire Iraq war off the budget. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1192 "2017-08-01T00:13:02Z")
So, I just saw Charlie Dent talking about a bipartisan healthcare reform bill. While it’s not close to what I’d hoped for ( it doesn’t expand coverage), it seems like it doesn’t completely suck. Considering the dominance of the R’s in all branches of the government, it might be worth supporting. > **[The new bipartisan House proposal to fix Obamacare, explained](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/31/16068130/problem-solver-house-proposal)** > > After the Senate bill collapsed, centrist members of Congress have a plan to fill the void. For what I’ve managed to pick up even though it’s a little vague, the main points are 1. Stop the sabotage of Obamacare. Guarantee the CSR payments. I think they are reinstating the risk corridors but I’m not sure on that point. 2. Remove the employer mandate for small businesses ( between 50 and 500 employees). I don’t hate it. I’m assuming that any employer that is only offering insurance because they have to isn’t picking up the tab, so the employees can buy on the exchanges. Now I’m thinking that this might be a good thing as it would add a lot of healthy working people to the exchanges. 3. Retain and enforce the individual mandate. 4. Repeal the medical device tax. I’m not crazy about it, but in the spirit of compromise I think I could live with that since you have to let them repeal something, just so they can call it Repeal and Replace in order to fool Trump. 5. Make certain reforms to allow the states more leeway in the way they run the exchanges. I’m not sure what that means, it could be something noxious that’s a deal-breaker, or it could be innocuous- or somewhere in the middle. So, do you this no this might be the answer, at least for now? ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1193 "2017-08-01T00:23:45Z")
Like you, Ann Hedonia, I’m not 100% sure what I think. I’d need more details on exactly how some of this might work. But it’s encouraging that it is a bipartisan plan. I think we could live with it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1194 "2017-08-01T03:44:22Z")
There are hints of reason and common sense in the poor, doomed creature. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1195 "2017-08-01T03:52:41Z")
Lot to worry about in that last bit about leeway for the individual states, that could hide a multitude of sins. Could easily devolve into a situation where poors _need_ to move to another state, for reasons of health. Naturally, red state Pubbies would sorely regret such an outcome as bunches of Dem voters moving away, and its unfortunate effect on diversity. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1196 "2017-08-01T12:35:01Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > For what I’ve managed to pick up even though it’s a little vague, the main points are > > 1. Stop the sabotage of Obamacare. Guarantee the CSR payments. I think they are reinstating the risk corridors but I’m not sure on that point. > 2. Remove the employer mandate for small businesses ( between 50 and 500 employees). I don’t hate it. I’m assuming that any employer that is only offering insurance because they have to isn’t picking up the tab, so the employees can buy on the exchanges. Now I’m thinking that this might be a good thing as it would add a lot of healthy working people to the exchanges. > 3. Retain and enforce the individual mandate. > 4. Repeal the medical device tax. I’m not crazy about it, but in the spirit of compromise I think I could live with that since you have to let them repeal something, just so they can call it Repeal and Replace in order to fool Trump. While repealing the employer mandate is a bad idea, it will likely have pretty minimal effect. So these changes are all reasonable. > [@](#): > > 1. Make certain reforms to allow the states more leeway in the way they run the exchanges. I’m not sure what that means, it could be something noxious that’s a deal-breaker, or it could be innocuous- or somewhere in the middle. I haven’t seen this proposed. I have seen giving more explicit regulatory guidance on selling insurance across state lines, which always makes me laugh because Rs are CONVINCED this will make a huge difference while insurance companies? They don’t want it. It gives the Rs something to talk about, I guess, so let them have it. It won’t matter a hill of beans. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1197 "2017-08-01T15:06:47Z")
The insurance companies don’t want selling across state lines because that will become a race to the bottom and only those companies in the states with the least regulation have a hope of winning that. It would put a lot of them out of business. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1198 "2017-08-01T15:11:26Z")
Policies that will be effective if you are injured as a result of an elephant stampede, in a blizzard on the 4th of July. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1199 "2017-08-01T15:14:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The insurance companies don’t want selling across state lines because that will become a race to the bottom and only those companies in the states with the least regulation have a hope of winning that. It would put a lot of them out of business. It’s more because it is really hard to form networks in states where you don’t do your primary business. Insurance is the network of providers who accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1200 "2017-08-01T15:17:40Z")
And yet… Blue Cross works across state lines with little problem (it looks pretty seamless from the customer’s viewpoint, behind the scenes a lot goes on). What would happen is that the last companies standing would be incorporated in least-restrictive states with branch offices everywhere else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=61)