# The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146 "2017-01-02T17:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1481 "2017-10-13T14:41:04Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > A big step in the right direction. What do you expect to happen to \*your \*premiums? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1482 "2017-10-13T14:46:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > What do you expect to happen to \*your \*premiums? He’ll probably grab one of those ultra-low priced plans that doesn’t actually cover anything beyond a doctor visit or two. Need the hospital or hit that $5,000 lifetime limit and you’re on your own. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1483 "2017-10-13T15:17:50Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Can we change the thread title? He has done everything he can to sabotage the ACA so it’s his now. What we now have is TrumpDon’tCare. He owns it. He owns it? The 63 million morons who voted (R) in the last election blame Obama for the 2005 Katrina disaster. Do you think they won’t blame him for the 2018 Obamacare disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1484 "2017-10-13T15:29:06Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s a strategy that comes with risks for sure. If the insurers just start pulling out the marketplaces then that’s bad press. But it may not backfire. It might be that there are some winners and some losers, which is true with ACA. I’m not sure if there are any winners here; the analysis I’ve seen indicates that fewer people will be covered, the government will end up paying more, and the insurers will also take hits. A lose-lose-lose situation. The real question is whether Trump will be able to get away with taking deliberate action to harm the ACA marketplace and then make threatening tweets to Democrats “call me to fix” and then _still blame Obama for the problems he just created_. Political science up to this point says no. But do normal rules apply in the Trump era? Who knows! I don’t! I’ll just be curled up in the corner, drinking heavily, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1485 "2017-10-13T15:43:14Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > He owns it? The 63 million morons who voted (R) in the last election blame Obama for the 2005 Katrina disaster. Do you think they won’t blame him for the 2018 Obamacare disaster? Charlie Dent-(R) was just on CNN saying that from here on, the GOP will have to own it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1486 "2017-10-13T15:43:44Z")
I still don’t get the Republican obsession with “allowing competition across state lines”. They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations. All the Republicans really mean is they want to eliminate the states’ rights to regulate health plans. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1487 "2017-10-13T17:17:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If you’re in the individual market but have too much income to be eligible for subsidies, [you’re gonna get hit hard](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/opinion/trump-obamacare-executive-order-health-insurance.html?_r=0), it looks like. > > If you’re insured through your job, or if you’re on Medicare or Medicaid, same as it ever was. > > If you’re in the individual market but your income’s low enough that you qualify for subsidies, your bill won’t go up much if at all, but the government’s bill will go up considerably. (It actually costs the government more to end CSR subsidies than to keep them, from everything I’ve heard from wonks elsewhere.) This is going to be a disaster for me. We are in the individual market, and make just a little too much to qualify for subsidies. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1488 "2017-10-13T17:34:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I still don’t get the Republican obsession with “allowing competition across state lines”. They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations. All the Republicans really mean is they want to eliminate the states’ rights to regulate health plans. I’m guessing similar to credit cards. The companies can follow the rules of the state they’re headquartered in, not the state(s) they sell in. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1489 "2017-10-13T17:41:58Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m guessing similar to credit cards. The companies can follow the rules of the state they’re headquartered in, not the state(s) they sell in. How would people deal with problems with their insurance company if it’s across state lines? The way it works now is that you can complain to the insurance board of your state and they can pull the license of the insurance company if there are too many problems. But what can someone in Idaho do if their insurance company in Delaware doesn’t pay the claims they are supposed to? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1490 "2017-10-13T17:49:19Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > How would people deal with problems with their insurance company if it’s across state lines? The way it works now is that you can complain to the insurance board of your state and they can pull the license of the insurance company if there are too many problems. But what can someone in Idaho do if their insurance company in Delaware doesn’t pay the claims they are supposed to? Complain to the insurance board of Delaware. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1491 "2017-10-13T17:53:48Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I still don’t get the Republican obsession with “allowing competition across state lines”. They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations. All the Republicans really mean is they want to eliminate the states’ rights to regulate health plans. Insurance is _sui generis_ in this regard, based on the McCarran-Ferguson Act. That legislation permits states to forbid out-of-state insurance business completely. Is that what you meant when you said, “They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations.” You meant they can do it if they comply with the state’s regulations that forbid them from doing it? Can you explain what you meant? That seems a contradictory statement. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1492 "2017-10-13T17:56:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Complain to the insurance board of Delaware. A wholly owned subsidiary of Blue Cross / Blue Shield. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1493 "2017-10-13T17:57:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Complain to the insurance board of Delaware. In the real world, how responsive will they be to complaints from other states? Presumably, all the insurance companies would be located in the state with the most favorable regulations (like credit cards). Is it realistic to think that the companies will move to the state with the most lax insurance board? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1494 "2017-10-13T18:02:22Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > In the real world, how responsive will they be to complaints from other states? Presumably, all the insurance companies would be located in the state with the most favorable regulations (like credit cards). Is it realistic to think that the companies will move to the state with the most lax insurance board? In the real world, regulatory bodies for other industries respond with essentially equal alacrity to complaints from out of state. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1495 "2017-10-13T18:12:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Insurance is _sui generis_ in this regard, based on the McCarran-Ferguson Act. > > That legislation permits states to forbid out-of-state insurance business completely. Is that what you meant when you said, “They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations.” You meant they can do it if they comply with the state’s regulations that forbid them from doing it? Do all states currently forbid out-of-state insurance business completely? How do national insurance companies work? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1496 "2017-10-13T18:23:50Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Do all states currently forbid out-of-state insurance business completely? How do national insurance companies work? They have to be licensed in each state that they operate in. All the plans they have to offer to residents of that state have to meet the requirements that that state has determined. That’s the biggest problem with buying across state lines. The insurance companies will move to the state with the least restrictions, and sell into the states with higher. As bricker has said, currently, states may forbid insurance companies from selling the same product across state lines. They can require an insurance company to be licensed and offer plans that qualify for the state. Removing that ability for states to control the type of insurance offered in the state is the goal. It will be great for the insurance companies, but I have yet to see an argument that makes it better for the consumer. (Well, cheaper plans, but they are cheaper because they do not meet the minimum requirements that your state has set, so likely a waste of money when it is needed.) ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1497 "2017-10-13T18:26:07Z")
I’m not in a panic about it yet. I think there is a good chance for a lawsuit against the order, as contrary to existing federal law, getting a temporary stop before it goes into effect. At that point I have no idea what would happen but if it did end up in the supreme court, it is a court with the same general ideological makeup that saved the ACA a few years ago. And they are, of course, partisan, but partisan Pubs, not Trumpnuts. I can’t see that many of them really looking forward to tying their legacy to certifying executive overreach against a congress controlled by their party, by a buffoon, with no respect for the constitution, open contempt for the judiciary, and certain to go down as the most contemptible jackass the White House will ever see. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1498 "2017-10-13T18:27:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Insurance is _sui generis_ in this regard, based on the McCarran-Ferguson Act. > > That legislation permits states to forbid out-of-state insurance business completely. Is that what you meant when you said, “They can already do that all they want, as long as they comply with the states’ regulations.” You meant they can do it if they comply with the state’s regulations that forbid them from doing it? > > Can you explain what you meant? That seems a contradictory statement. An insurance company can be set up in multiple states, it just has to be licensed in each of them. That allows the states to regulate them. By allowing them to sell across state lines, the state is no longer able to regulate the insurance companies that are offering plans to it’s citizens. There is nothing stopping states from allowing an insurance carrier to sell into their state without a license in that state, the federal law does not prevent that from happening. It just give the states the right o make sure that its citizens are getting a minimum quality of insurance that they deem appropriate. What this does is strip states of their rights in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1499 "2017-10-13T18:30:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Removing that ability for states to control the type of insurance offered in the state is the goal. It will be great for the insurance companies, but I have yet to see an argument that makes it better for the consumer. (Well, cheaper plans, but they are cheaper because they do not meet the minimum requirements that your state has set, so likely a waste of money when it is needed.) This is the part I don’t understand. I know that direct comparison to car insurance isn’t the best, but each state has minimum liability insurance requirements for its residents. Any car insurance policy I buy has to meet the Maryland minimum liability standards for car insurance. Wouldn’t health insurance work the same way, regardless of where the company is actually located? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/1500 "2017-10-13T18:39:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the real world, regulatory bodies for other industries respond with essentially equal alacrity to complaints from out of state. Which is why we had to establish the CFPB. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=76)