# The Repeal of Obamacare/ACA: Step-bystep, Inch-by-inch **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146 "2017-01-02T17:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/141 "2017-01-05T23:18:42Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Please join me in following the Republicans as they tap dance, shuffle, and obfuscate in the process of dismantling the highly popular\* (yes, it is) and highly successful\* (yes, it is) Affordable Care Act The ACA is a complete failure because health care costs have gone UP since it passed so no - it does not provide “Affordable Care” Maybe if it were called “Getting every American insured [no matter what it costs them] Care” then yes it has been very successful. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/142 "2017-01-05T23:24:01Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Alright so the free stuff argument looks to be from a different thread. Mea culpa. However, I still stand by my point that single payer and/or ACA in Colorado (or nationwide for that matter) has never been popular except to those that stand to directly benefit (color me stunned). It’s just not. An amendment to bring it in some fashion was defeated and defeated soundly. With that large a margin. it’s not the details that lost. It’s the concept that lost. Nope. Read up on ColoradoCare. It was defeated because the insurance companies outspent the proponents by a HUGE margin. Also, the anti-ColoradoCare side played on peoples stupidity. They played to how TAXES would be increased. Nevermind that even with the increase in taxes my healthcare bill would go down since I wouldn’t have to pay insurance premiums. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/143 "2017-01-05T23:40:55Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The ACA is a complete failure because health care costs have gone UP since it passed \*That \*never happened before, did it? :rolleyes: Costs went up _more slowly_ than they would have. > [@](#): > > Maybe if it were called “Getting every American insured [no matter what it costs them] Care” then yes it has been very successful. It has become affordable for roughly 20 million people who did not have it before. It could have been more successful, eliminating the problem entirely, if it had not faced such fierce and irrational opposition. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/144 "2017-01-06T00:59:14Z")
You broke it-- you own it. > [@](#): > > Democrats have an emerging strategy to defend the Affordable Care Act from Republican assault, daring their opponents to defy the “Pottery Barn rule”: They’re about to break the health-care system, and that means they will own it. > > For more than six years, Republicans have attacked unpopular parts of the law without having to propose alternatives. Those days are over. > … > “They’re going to own it and all the problems in the health-care system,” Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said at a news conference… > > “Now they’re responsible for the entire health-care system, and it will be on their backs,” he said. “And I believe, a year from now, they will regret that they came out so fast out of the box.” > … > [Cite](http://wapo.st/2iFlOzP) ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/145 "2017-01-06T01:16:44Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Nope. Read up on ColoradoCare. It was defeated because the insurance companies outspent the proponents by a HUGE margin. Also, the anti-ColoradoCare side played on peoples stupidity. They played to how TAXES would be increased. Nevermind that even with the increase in taxes my healthcare bill would go down since I wouldn’t have to pay insurance premiums. It was never popular. Spin it how you like. The claim that single payer healthcare is/was popular is a false claim. Evoking the same excuse making and voter blaming that Clinton supporters try to shovel off the failure of her campaign to is not compelling. The fact of the matter is that it lost, by a four to fucking one margin. Apparently 80 percent of Colorado voters are morons easily duped by corporations. (As an aside, Hillary Clinton won Colorado.) Spin it all you want but single payer healthcare is NOT popular. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/146 "2017-01-06T01:25:06Z")
They’ve added [defunding planned parenthood](http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05/politics/paul-ryan-planned-parenthood-obamacare/) to the repeal legislation. Good to see them overreaching so far so soon. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/147 "2017-01-06T01:28:55Z")
> [@](#): > > …but single payer healthcare is NOT popular. OK, is it becoming less unpopular, as time goes on? Not going to ask if its getting “more popular”, don’t want to upset you. Seems to me, that was Obama’s plan from the git-go. He basically made a bet with Republicans, that even this wizened and spasticated effort would improve a situation so bad that almost anything would help. And he let them load it up with compromises, even shoving some benefits down the road. The Republicans bet that they could exaggerate the weakness they demanded to be built in, and make it so unpopular, it would fall apart. Almost did, but it didn’t. Shrewd play, Mr. President. Sir. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/148 "2017-01-06T01:42:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, is it becoming less unpopular, as time goes on? Not going to ask if its getting “more popular”, don’t want to upset you. > > Seems to me, that was Obama’s plan from the git-go. He basically made a bet with Republicans, that even this wizened and spasticated effort would improve a situation so bad that almost anything would help. And he let them load it up with compromises, even shoving some benefits down the road. The Republicans bet that they could exaggerate the weakness they demanded to be built in, and make it so unpopular, it would fall apart. Almost did, but it didn’t. > > Shrewd play, Mr. President. Sir. Gosh, **'luci** , bless your heart for the kindest of consideration for my well being here in the Pit. No, it’s not more popular or less not popular. Folks seem to be getting a gander at the ACA and/or single payer and going what the fuck is this shit? ACA has my premium at almost a damn mortgage payment and I _have_ to have it or get penalized up to 2G’s at tax time. That doesn’t make for popular. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/149 "2017-01-06T01:49:07Z")
At this point, their main focus is on figuring out how to blame the Democrats when the “we elected you to get rid of _Obama_care, not the _Affordable Care_ Act” pitchforks and torches come out. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/150 "2017-01-06T01:50:56Z")
> [@](#): > > …That doesn’t make for popular. I ask for stats, you give anecdote. Works for you, OK by me. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/151 "2017-01-06T02:02:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I ask for stats, you give anecdote. Works for you, OK by me. Oh you wanted, stats. My bad. I missed that. Looked like a request for opinion to me. [In 1924 Rogers Hornsby had a slash line of .424/.507/.696 with an OPS of 1.203.](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hornsro01.shtml) How’s that? As for the single payer thing, I’ll throw the stat, I guess, that pre-voting, Amendment 69 polled at 30 percent… not very popular to begin with. It dropped another 10 percent on voting day. [Here](https://ballotpedia.org/Colorado_Creation_of_ColoradoCare_System,_Amendment_69_(2016)) To me, that indicates, at least here in Colorado, it is less popular. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/152 "2017-01-06T02:34:18Z")
A few years back I qualified for single payer healthcare here in the good old US of A. As an another anecdote, most of us in that situation love it (and hope the government keeps their hands off it :D). ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/153 "2017-01-06T05:34:31Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > It was never popular. Spin it how you like. The claim that single payer healthcare is/was popular is a false claim. Evoking the same excuse making and voter blaming that Clinton supporters try to shovel off the failure of her campaign to is not compelling. The fact of the matter is that it lost, by a four to fucking one margin. Apparently 80 percent of Colorado voters are morons easily duped by corporations. (As an aside, Hillary Clinton won Colorado.) Spin it all you want but single payer healthcare is NOT popular. What healthcare solution will be popular? All solutions will be unpopular. Single payer–unpopular. Require everyone to pay for insurance–unpopular. What is the popular solution? Unless we can get someone else to pay for it (like Mexico :)), people are going to be unhappy about any solution. It’s clear that Americans in general want: - Health insurance that is free or costs almost nothing and covers everything. - You don’t have to have insurance until you’re sick, at which time you can sign on and get the low premiums - Taxes to be lowered - Health services to be free or extremely cheap That’s not going to happen. Any solution is going to involve painful choices and part of the population is going to be unhappy about it. People are unhappy about SS and Medicare, yet clearly there are many benefits. We need to focus on the right solution rather than the popular one. But in this pandering political climate, the politicians are not going to make the tough choices because they don’t want to risk the wrath of the biggest complainers. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/154 "2017-01-06T05:43:45Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > What healthcare solution will be popular? All solutions will be unpopular. Single payer–unpopular. Require everyone to pay for insurance–unpopular. What is the popular solution? > > Unless we can get someone else to pay for it (like Mexico :)), people are going to be unhappy about any solution. It’s clear that Americans in general want: > > - Health insurance that is free or costs almost nothing and covers everything. > - You don’t have to have insurance until you’re sick, at which time you can sign on and get the low premiums > - Taxes to be lowered > - Health services to be free or extremely cheap > > That’s not going to happen. Any solution is going to involve painful choices and part of the population is going to be unhappy about it. People are unhappy about SS and Medicare, yet clearly there are many benefits. > > We need to focus on the right solution rather than the popular one. But in this pandering political climate, the politicians are not going to make the tough choices because they don’t want to risk the wrath of the biggest complainers. …and if the “right answer” is it’s not for the federal government to sort? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/155 "2017-01-06T06:24:18Z")
Well, as with war, that’s an easier question to ponder when it’s not you or someone you love who’ll have to die in the name of “freedom”. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/156 "2017-01-06T06:37:08Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Well, as with war, that’s an easier question to ponder when it’s not you or someone you love who’ll have to die in the name of “freedom”. Well as with most things appealing purely to a emotional reasoning doesn’t often lead to the right answer ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/157 "2017-01-06T07:09:49Z")
I don’t think considering human costs was necessarily an emotional decision, especially when the other side talks about the threat to a nebulous concept that there is widespread disagreement as to its very definition. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/158 "2017-01-06T07:40:01Z")
Compassion is an emotion, I suppose. After all, Jesus wept, didn’t write a position paper. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/159 "2017-01-06T08:10:16Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Compassion is an emotion, I suppose. After all, Jesus wept, didn’t write a position paper. Are you agreeing to form public policy based on Jesus’ teachings? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2017, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146/160 "2017-01-06T08:41:42Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > …and if the “right answer” is it’s not for the federal government to sort? Then we should just ask whatever magical genie made it that way for health care? Because there’s no evidence at all for how that could even _work,_ much less be true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-repeal-of-obamacare-aca-step-bystep-inch-by-inch/776146.md?page=9)