# The Republican circus just gets more and more hilarious. Obama's re-election to follow. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 3, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976 "2011-12-03T20:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/61 "2011-12-05T18:08:26Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > “At least one, if not two…” Does that mean one, or two, or some other number? 😕 Would it have been better for me to write “one, perhaps two”? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/62 "2011-12-05T18:13:21Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Your logic is poor. > The number of people who voted for Nader was a lot smaller than the number of people who were eligible but did not vote at all. You might also consider the number of people who voted for the Republican candidate. Turning on people who voted for Nader because they didn’t toe the party line is just weird. It’s not their fault; they were part of the problem, but only a small part. It’s just easier to blame them because voter apathy is harder to put a face to. The people who voted Nader are pretty much the only one of those groups that you can claim would’ve had a strong preference of Gore over Bush with at least 99% certainty. Non-voters are part of the problem to the extent that they are disproportionately democrat (which I’m not sure of), but Republicans can’t really be counted in that way. ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/63 "2011-12-05T18:23:25Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Would it have been better for me to write “one, perhaps two”? There ya go! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/64 "2011-12-05T19:23:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No, at the time and as it turned out. Again, so what? I made it clear that even given hindsight, I would again vote for Nader. > > If Democrats want me to vote for them, they’d better give me a good reason. It’s difficult for me to comprehend the notion that _not having a Republican be president_ is anything other than an AWESOME reason. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/65 "2011-12-05T19:40:15Z")
Gore cost Gore the election, not Nader. I was just a kid back in 2000, but even I can see it. People who voted for Nader were not choosing him over Gore, they were choosing Nader over not voting at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/66 "2011-12-05T20:29:08Z")
> [@a35362](#): > > There ya go! 😛 Thanks for your scintillating contribution to the discussion. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/67 "2011-12-06T21:41:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And as a lame duck prez, he’s sure to make good on that, too. 😉 > > I think the days of Reaganesque landslides are over. Apparently, Obama is getting a jump on his get-out-the-vote machine in some local elections, and it’s working out pretty well. He should be one of the easiest presidents to defeat in decades, but the party that couldn’t shoot straight is going to make that much, much more difficult. Easier than Bush in '04? There’s plenty of bad marksmanship to go around. Roddy ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/68 "2011-12-07T02:04:45Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > By voting for nader, and therefore throwing away one progressive/liberal vote, you were _not_ supporting the lesser of two evils, unless you honestly think that Bush was better than Gore. Once again, too bad. If I, a fairly leftist Democrat, find that I cannot vote for the Democratic candidate because he is not left enough, and if there are enough of me to cost that candidate the election, well, as I said earlier, there’s a solution for that problem. Gore didn’t realize it; Kerry didn’t realize it; Obama realized it but turned out to be a pussy. If we leftists are seriously enough to cost a Democratic candidate election, why are we not being pandered to? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/69 "2011-12-07T02:06:33Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Once again, too bad. If I, a fairly leftist Democrat, find that I cannot vote for the Democratic candidate because he is not left enough, and if there are enough of me to cost that candidate the election, well, as I said earlier, there’s a solution for that problem. > > Gore didn’t realize it; Kerry didn’t realize it; Obama realized it but turned out to be a pussy. > > If we leftists are seriously enough to cost a Democratic candidate election, why are we not being pandered to? Because if you’re pandered to you lose the middle. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/70 "2011-12-07T02:08:50Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Because if you’re pandered to you lose the middle. Duh. As most elections from 1980 to 2010 demonstrated. The Republicans pandered to their most conservative elements, and won. I’m sick and tired of the Democrats being wimps. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/71 "2011-12-07T02:25:02Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Once again, too bad. If I, a fairly leftist Democrat, find that I cannot vote for the Democratic candidate because he is not left enough, and if there are enough of me to cost that candidate the election, well, as I said earlier, there’s a solution for that problem. There is indeed. Put a clothespin on your nose. The problem, I think, is that you’re viewing your vote as given to a candidate. I don’t give anyone my vote. I place it where I think it’ll do the most good. In 2000, I thought it did the most good going to Nader. (In NC, Gore had no chance–but then again, according to our local election board, votes for Nader wouldn’t even be tallied). I thought, as you suggested, that it would pressure Dems to move left. **I was wrong**. Dems instead followed the 2000 election by moving further to the right. Do you disagree that Dems responded to their loss by moving to the right? Do you disagree that they could count votes and see that if they’d received votes otherwise cast for Nader they would’ve won? If you agree with both these points, why on earth would you put your vote in that same place again? Principled stands are all very fine and good, but tell that to the victims of Bush’s Iraq adventure. Nobody receives your vote as a gift they’ve earned. Your vote simply pushes the country in one direction or another. Pay attention to where you want to push the country. And FTR, as soon as Jello Biafra reads this thread he’s totally entering the Republican primary. edit: > [@Frank](#): > > As most elections from 1980 to 2010 demonstrated. The Republicans pandered to their most conservative elements, and won. Not quite. Instead, the most conservative elements took over the Republican party from the inside, and the conservative elements won. You propose that the most liberal elements of the nation use the **exact opposite** strategy. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/72 "2011-12-07T02:31:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Do you disagree that Dems responded to their loss by moving to the right? Do you disagree that they could count votes and see that if they’d received votes otherwise cast for Nader they would’ve won? I don’t disagree with either of those questions. > [@](#): > > If you agree with both these points, why on earth would you put your vote in that same place again? Why on earth should I vote for a party that, realizing that a lack of commitment to the left cost them the election, moved to the right? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/73 "2011-12-07T02:46:34Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I don’t disagree with either of those questions. > Why on earth should I vote for a party that, realizing that a lack of commitment to the left cost them the election, moved to the right? Why? First, they didn’t realize that a lack of commitment to the left cost them the election: they realized that a lack of commitment FROM the left cost them the election. Now: Because in this choose your own adventure, you have three, and only three, choices: DO YOU: Nudge the country to the left of where it would otherwise be? TURN TO PAGE 17. Nudge the country to the right of where it would otherwise be? TURN TO PAGE 113. Decide not to influence the country’s direction at all? TURN TO PAGE 163. * * * Page 17: You must’ve voted for a Democrat. Page 113: You decided to vote Republican. Page 163: We got no idea what you did. Maybe you voted for Nader, or maybe you didn’t vote, or maybe you voted for Elmo. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/74 "2011-12-07T02:56:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Because in this choose your own adventure, you have three, and only three, choices: > > DO YOU: > Nudge the country to the left of where it would otherwise be? TURN TO PAGE 17. > > Nudge the country to the right of where it would otherwise be? TURN TO PAGE 113. > > Decide not to influence the country’s direction at all? TURN TO PAGE 163. > > * * * > > Page 17: You must’ve voted for a Democrat. > > Page 113: You decided to vote Republican. > > Page 163: We got no idea what you did. Maybe you voted for Nader, or maybe you didn’t vote, or maybe you voted for Elmo. :rolleyes: Far too involved with third-graders, I see. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/75 "2011-12-07T03:04:44Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > :rolleyes: Far too involved with third-graders, I see. Sometimes they see things clearer than the college radicals I used to hang out with. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/76 "2011-12-07T03:16:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > :rolleyes: Far too involved with third-graders, I see. Says the guy who somehow seems to think his vote is a reward bestowed grudgingly upon someone who meets a particular standard of ideological purity, and not the solemn act of a responsible citizen choosing which candidate would take the nation and the world on the better course for the future over the next few years. You really need to learn more about what this citizenship and democracy stuff is really all about, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/77 "2011-12-07T05:57:44Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Because you’d prefer Bush to Gore? :rolleyes: > > The problem is not that you voted for Nader. The problem is that most people who voted for Nader would, had he not been around, voted for Gore rather than Bush. IIRC, Nader got around 5% of the popular vote. That would’ve turned a close election into a mandate landslide. The progressive/liberal vote ended up getting split between those two candidates, rather than unified around one candidate. It’s like what happened in Maine in '08: there were two liberal candidates who split a majority of the voting population, and one conservative asshole who got in because neither of them on their own was able to stand up to his singular voice of right-wing idiocy. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I think you’re missing the point. Again, _you would prefer Bush to Gore?_ > [@Frank](#): > > Too bad. > > If Al Gore wanted me to vote for him, he had plenty of opportunity to make that clear. He did not. Well at the very least it should show you how the Democratic party reacts to the liberal left breaking away and voting for the Naders and Kuciniches of the world. They tack right and try to make up for the loss of the liberal left by chasing right leaning independents. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/78 "2011-12-07T06:05:27Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > I would hope so. The next President will have the opportunity to appoint at least one, if not two, Supreme Court Justices, which will allow the occupant of the Oval Office the opportunity to influence public policy for decades to come. I would like that person to be someone who at least recognizes my right to exist. Your right to exist? Who are you, smallpox? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The people who voted Nader are pretty much the only one of those groups that you can claim would’ve had a strong preference of Gore over Bush with at least 99% certainty. Non-voters are part of the problem to the extent that they are disproportionately democrat (which I’m not sure of), but Republicans can’t really be counted in that way. You get better voter turnout from Rpeublicans but that has a lot to do with age demographics. > [@Frank](#): > > Once again, too bad. If I, a fairly leftist Democrat, find that I cannot vote for the Democratic candidate because he is not left enough, and if there are enough of me to cost that candidate the election, well, as I said earlier, there’s a solution for that problem. OK so let the cat out of the bag. What is the solution for that problem? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/79 "2011-12-07T08:57:04Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OK so let the cat out of the bag. What is the solution for that problem? Move to a country with proportional representation or approval voting, where voters’ first choice preferences can be weighed within the electoral system. In a first past-the-post/winner-take-all scheme, those who vote for their first choice (Babe Ruth! Mother Theresa! Lady Gaga!) will invariably split the ballot. You get 2 choices. The rest are spoilers. Confusingly, our system wasn’t designed this way: we were suppose to choose wise electors and _they_ would appoint the President. Not an awful idea really. As an aside, I find it hilarious that some people didn’t find Nobel Laurette Al Gore pure enough for their tastes. Instead they plopped for a liar like Ralph Nader, who claimed that he wouldn’t campaign in swing states. If Nader told the truth, that would have swung Florida _and_ New Hampshire to Al Gore, and we wouldn’t have pissed $2 trillion into the pointless Iraq War sinkhole. Oh, and you don’t think that Al Gore made a sufficiently strong case? _Maybe you didn’t listen hard enough._ It was damn clear to me that he would advance commonwealth: you could look at his publications, his seriousness and careful and constructive behavior in the Senate. ETA: Weirdly and irrelevantly, I had thought Frank was a conservative of some stripe. Didn’t know he had supported Nader. I’m not sure how I had formed that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976/80 "2011-12-07T09:06:11Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Easier than Bush in '04? > > There’s plenty of bad marksmanship to go around. > > Roddy Much easier that Bush '04. Bush delivered us the worst financial crisis and downturn since the Great Depression. But in 2004 the economy was doing fine. After adjusting for the economy, Kerry was a perfectly adequate candidate: he actually beat the point spread: Bush should have done much better. [Cite](http://fairmodel.econ.yale.edu/vote2004/vot1104.htm). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-circus-just-gets-more-and-more-hilarious-obamas-re-election-to-follow/604976.md?page=5)