# The Republican national Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729 "2016-06-18T21:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/341 "2016-07-19T11:32:52Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Paul Manafort’s explanation: “There is no cribbing of Michelle Obama’s speech. These are common words.” > > So they’re going to double down. And this is the most boring day of the convention, so nothing is going to wow people into forgetting this. And Manafort is the _professional_, who was brought in to make this a normal campaign. Although, Trump being Trump, there’s always the possibility that he’ll say something grievously offensive and get people talking about _that_ instead. Melania Trump giving homage to Michelle Obama’s speechifying, and denying it, is the big deal of that night? On the scale of Trump-ups (1 to 10) that is a 1.5 Trump-up. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/342 "2016-07-19T11:38:45Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Maybe you should have explicitly stated that as your objection, rather than insinuate that he had plagiarized it without Parker’s knowledge. Well, part of the problem is that the anti-Trump, pro-Obama posters have attempted to move the goalposts on the issue. When it first became apparent Melania’s speech closely resembled Michelle Obama’s, the criticism and mockery had nothing to do with having not asked Michelle’s permission and everything to do with she didn’t write it herself and either copied it from Michelle or her speechwriter did. So the issue was she didn’t write her own speech and copied from what she or her speechwriter thought was a good speech delivered previously by Michelle Obama. Now all of a sudden it’s become a case of who had permission and who didn’t, a question that never arose until after I posted a Youtube video of Obama earnestly and passionately delivering another guy’s speech. So I’m inclined to think the original objection should stand because that’s what my opponents were initially all het up over. They now disagree because then their guy is just as bad as Melania. So now they want to change horses midstream and make it an issue of permission because that way they can win. Such is life at the Straight Dope Message Board. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/343 "2016-07-19T11:45:58Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > FFS, Obama’s audience knows he has speechwriters. Yes, but they don’t know he’s cribbing another guy’s speech word for word. Both men agreed it would be better if the audience thought the words and thoughts expressed in the speech were coming from Obama rather than from Patrick. So like I said, it was a deliberate deception undertaken for the express purpose of misleading the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/344 "2016-07-19T11:55:34Z")
I see CNN has now changed their webpage headline from trumpeting “Plagiarism” to the more inflammatory declaration, _“Stolen Words”_. Either that, or they figure their readership doesn’t know what plagiarism is. I’m thinking it’s 50/50 either way. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/345 "2016-07-19T11:59:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, part of the problem is that the anti-Trump, pro-Obama posters have attempted to move the goalposts on the issue. When it first became apparent Melania’s speech closely resembled Michelle Obama’s, the criticism and mockery had nothing to do with having not asked Michelle’s permission and everything to do with she didn’t write it herself and either copied it from Michelle or her speechwriter did. So the issue was she didn’t write her own speech and copied from what she or her speechwriter thought was a good speech delivered previously by Michelle Obama. > > Now all of a sudden it’s become a case of who had permission and who didn’t, a question that never arose until after I posted a Youtube video of Obama earnestly and passionately delivering another guy’s speech. > > So I’m inclined to think the original objection should stand because that’s what my opponents were initially all het up over. They now disagree because then their guy is just as bad as Melania. So now they want to change horses midstream and make it an issue of permission because that way they can win. > > Such is life at the Straight Dope Message Board. I see a lot of Trump in you, in that you’re never really content to let an issue go. You both seem to have an almost pathological need to have the last word, even if it diminishes the rest of your argument. You, of course, may disagree with that notion, and it’s not intended as an insult. We’ve been in a few threads together, but never really interacted that much. I’m just making an observation. You could just as easily say that I’m kind of a weak debater, with an almost pathological need to show that I belong at the adults’ table. And you would be right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/346 "2016-07-19T12:02:55Z")
The Melania plagiarism is amusing, but I’m far more worried about things like Congressman (and maybe the dumbest man in Congress aside from Louie Gohmert) Steve King [repeating white supremacist talking points](http://www.mediaite.com/tv/steve-king-on-complaints-about-white-people-what-other-group-has-contributed-more-to-western-civilization/#ooid=h2MTd0NDE6aOUOJHJkl2BzbOWm_kZWQh) about the supposed superiority of white civilization. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/347 "2016-07-19T12:09:56Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Would that Democrats come under the same scrutiny. For all we know Michelle’s speech could have been plagiarized, but we’d never hear a peep about it if so. How many critical or condemning articles have appeared about Obama the last eight years outside _Fox_ and _Drudge_? I’ve never found one anytime I’ve looked on sites such as _CNN_, _USA Today,_ the _New York Times_, the _LA Times_, etc., etc., etc. For all anyone outside the _Fox/Drudge_ sphere knows, Obama himself is a Teflon president. Only without the need of Teflon. :rolleyes: …you mean like the Democratic candidate who had to endure a massive and years long investigation even though the previous SEVEN investigations exonerated her? Obama and the Clintons have been repeatedly, viciously, and often hysterically attacked over every word, phrase, and gesture they did or did not make… Not matter how much those accusations are idiotic, ill conceived, or imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/348 "2016-07-19T12:14:20Z")
That “plagiarism” felt a whole lot like a speechwriters revenge … Some of the convention addresses are like scenes from The Hunger Games, a kind of altered, Nuremberg reality. Plus, [the relentless exploitation of genuine grief and heartbreaking pain](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/19/republican-convention-trump-gop-grief-exploitation) Wtf happened to the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/349 "2016-07-19T12:31:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And why is no one talking about how well she _delivered_ the speech, huh? 😃 Paul Begala, Clintonite Extraordinaire, certainly commented on it: > [@](#): > > **By far the night’s best moment came from Mr. Trump’s remarkable wife, Melania**. But even her gracious speech was tainted with a very Trumpian controversy. A side-by-side comparison of one paragraph shows it was lifted from Michelle Obama’s 2008 convention speech. Let me be clear: I do not blame Mrs. Trump for this. She is a political neophyte. But her husband and his team should have been especially sensitive after The New York Times reported on Trump Institute’s plagiarism a few weeks ago. > … > **The rage-fest was nearly rescued by Melania Trump. The charming and accomplished spouse of The Donald has not spoken often, but she brought a quiet grace to an otherwise divisive and nasty night**. She even accomplished the impossible: keeping her loquacious husband down to a one-sentence introduction after he entered the stage like a WWE wrestler. But her herculean effort was smashed within hours, as eagle-eyed observers discovered that a passage about values in her speech was apparently plagiarized from Mrs. Obama. [Begala: A very Trump convention – messy, undisciplined, angry](http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/19/opinions/democrats-view-first-night-rnc-begala/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/350 "2016-07-19T12:35:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …When it first became apparent Melania’s speech closely resembled Michelle Obama’s… This gem belongs in your Greatest Hits compilation. “Closely resembled”, indeed. Just so. Did you write “_very_ closely resembled” first, and then thought maybe that was a bit much? Didn’t want to overdo it? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/351 "2016-07-19T12:36:26Z")
So, I watch the local CBS news while getting ready for work. There’s only spotty coverage of international & national stories–I mostly watch for the weather. (Hey, it’s going to be hot–surprise, surprise!) This morning I saw the beginnings of two half-hour segments. The lead story? A clip from Melania’s “speech.” Followed by the almost identical clip from Michelle’s. They used different excerpts for each segment. In today’s world, we need some silly stories. Which will be repeated! (We did see a brief segment of the Texas delegation, who are Cruz supporters & joined in the abortive rebellion. Damn, those cowboy getups!) Oh, “classy” is a tacky word. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/352 "2016-07-19T12:37:24Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Is reading and writing really so bad these days? [Not really.](http://www.nationsreportcard.gov/ltt_2012/) The NAEP has been testing since 1971, and here’s what they have to say (this is from the 2012 long-term report): > [@](#): > > Compared to the first assessment in 1971 for reading and in 1973 for mathematics, scores were higher in 2012 for 9- and 13-year-olds and not significantly different for 17-year-olds. If you drill down in the data for individual years, there also seems to be a sub-trend of the highest scoring percentile scoring higher over the last few years, and the lowest scoring lower. The scores getting higher among the top scorers reflects my observation. College-aged kids today seem to be much smarter than I was at that age almost 25 years ago. If I were applying now to my university with the scores I had then, I doubt I’d get in. Anyhow, back to the regularly scheduled thread: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/353 "2016-07-19T12:38:37Z")
You just know the way Trump will deal with this is to do something even more outrageous to distract from this stumble. I’m predicting he comes out tonight tap dancing in blackface. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/354 "2016-07-19T12:43:53Z")
By the way, all of you who are mocking her accent: how many of you have addressed a national political convention, televised to the world, in a foreign language? Give her some credit - that is an impressive accomplishment in and of itself. When did being an immigrant to the US become a point of mockery? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/355 "2016-07-19T12:47:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, part of the problem is that the anti-Trump, pro-Obama posters have attempted to move the goalposts on the issue. When it first became apparent Melania’s speech closely resembled Michelle Obama’s, the criticism and mockery had nothing to do with having not asked Michelle’s permission and everything to do with she didn’t write it herself and either copied it from Michelle or her speechwriter did. So the issue was she didn’t write her own speech and copied from what she or her speechwriter thought was a good speech delivered previously by Michelle Obama. > > Now all of a sudden it’s become a case of who had permission and who didn’t, a question that never arose until after I posted a Youtube video of Obama earnestly and passionately delivering another guy’s speech. > > So I’m inclined to think the original objection should stand because that’s what my opponents were initially all het up over. They now disagree because then their guy is just as bad as Melania. So now they want to change horses midstream and make it an issue of permission because that way they can win. > > Such is life at the Straight Dope Message Board. There’s no ‘goalpost shifting,’ because nobody, **nobody** had a problem with the fact that some other person might have written Melania’s speech. You’re making up a position that nobody had, and then when people won’t support that position you’re accusing them of shifting the goalposts to the only position they had from the get-go. You honestly think that objections to Melania’s speech were truly just that “she didn’t write her own speech”? If so, I suggest that you dig a little deeper into context and connotation. Your inability to understand what ought to have been plain indicates that you have a comprehension problem that might get in the way of communicating with fellow humans. But fear not! It’s the sort of thing you can work on, if you want to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/356 "2016-07-19T13:13:21Z")
Those two All American bullet headed Saxon mother’s sons, the heroes of _13 Hours_. I was curious, so I tried to Google a search for what they got paid as “security consultants”. > [@](#): > > …The contractors portrayed in “13 Hours,” for example, were paid on average $150,000 per year, according to the book that inspired the movie, written by Boston University’s Mitchell Zuckoff in collaboration with the surviving members of the GRS team… [http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2016-01-15/benghazi-13-hours-and-the-new-us-military](http://www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2016-01-15/benghazi-13-hours-and-the-new-us-military) Does anyone have a clear distinction available, so that we can distinguish between “security consultants” and “mercenaries”? Can someone give me a good reason to trust in the honesty and integrity of a man who signs on to kill for money? Personally, I have more respect for whores, at least they _fuck_ for money! Did they pick security consultant life, or did security consultant life pick them? And, of course, somebody is lying. Either there were direct and explicit “stand down” orders, or there were not. IIRC, all the investigations, all the evidence, testimony and facts derived say there were not. But these two testosterone deranged goons say there were, and, oh, by the way, they are heroes for ignoring them. Either that, or _bo-koo ching ching_. Christ Jesus, didn’t we learn anything from that whole “Blackwater” stinkbomb? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/357 "2016-07-19T13:15:07Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > By the way, all of you who are mocking her accent: how many of you have addressed a national political convention, televised to the world, in a foreign language? > > Give her some credit - that is an impressive accomplishment in and of itself. > > **When did being an immigrant to the US become a point of mockery?** Since Donald? 😃 Actually, since forever. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/358 "2016-07-19T13:16:57Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Paul Manafort’s explanation: “There is no cribbing of Michelle Obama’s speech. These are common words.” Look, I despise Donald Trump, but… … I am not wholly convinced of the accusation of plagiarism. The allegedly stolen lines are not quite identical, and express general, vague sentiments common in such speeches. Having some commonality in wording and turns of phrase is to be expected. I don’t understanding anything else Starving Artist is saying - Melania Trump is a symbol of nothing but the privilege you can get from screwing a rich person way older than you - but, meh, wannabe First Lady speeches all say the same thing. My primary criticism of Melania Trump would be that she is supporting the Presidential aspirations of a narcissistic sociopath who plans on using the office to rob the people of the United States of America and will hurt anyone who gets in the way of his doing that. ETA: As pointed out to me by SenorBeef in the Trump campaign thread, Melania Trump’s speech actually contains a Rickroll. So, the likelihood of the speechwriter(s) deliberately sabotaging it, or just screwing around because nobody in Trump’s team gives a shit, is significantly higher than I believed now that I am aware of this. So maybe I’m wrong about the plagiarism. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/359 "2016-07-19T13:30:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Does anyone have a clear distinction available, so that we can distinguish between “security consultants” and “mercenaries”? There is no distinction. “Consultant” just sounds better in the budget back home. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/360 "2016-07-19T13:33:26Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > By the way, all of you who are mocking her accent: how many of you have addressed a national political convention, televised to the world, in a foreign language? > > Give her some credit - that is an impressive accomplishment in and of itself. > > When did being an immigrant to the US become a point of mockery? With irony, in the context of the Trump campaign? June 16, 2015. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=19)