# The Republican national Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729 "2016-06-18T21:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/361 "2016-07-19T13:34:24Z")
Re Melania’s speech: IT’S OBVIOUSLY HILLARY’S FAULT! C’mon, people, use your heads. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/362 "2016-07-19T13:34:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The allegedly stolen lines are not quite identical, and express general, vague sentiments common in such speeches. Having some commonality in wording and turns of phrase is to be expected. They aren’t quite identical, no…but many of the words, and the phrasing, _are_ the same, and I find it very, _very_ hard to believe that it was anything other than intentional plagarism. I’ll be very curious to see how the Trump campaign handles this today, because Manafort’s initial reaction was pretty lame. Anything other than “yes, someone lifted these lines, and that person has been dismissed from the campaign” shows an even deeper lack of morals than Trump’s campaign has already shown (and I didn’t think that that was possible). ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/363 "2016-07-19T13:35:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > My primary criticism of Melania Trump would be that she is supporting the Presidential aspirations of a narcissistic sociopath who plans on using the office to rob the people of the United States of America and will hurt anyone who gets in the way of his doing that. I do think it’s important that we’re reminded now and then about this. I suppose you can defend the content of Melania’s speech, but the purpose of the speech is indefensible. I can’t believe that even someone married to that creature would want him to become President of the United States. Assuming she has become a citizen of the U.S., she should put the needs of her country over her personal and her family’s ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/364 "2016-07-19T13:36:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Look, I despise Donald Trump, but… > > … I am not wholly convinced of the accusation of plagiarism. The allegedly stolen lines are not quite identical, and express general, vague sentiments common in such speeches. Having some commonality in wording and turns of phrase is to be expected. They’re common sentiments, but there are a million ways to express those sentiments. What are the odds that Michelle and Melania (and their respective speechwriters) would express them in almost exactly the same words? I agree that the odds of deliberate fuckery by speechwriters seem high. But I think it’s far more likely that they gave this to the least qualified person on their clown car of a speechwriting team, who really did think he had changed enough words that people wouldn’t notice he lifted the whole graf from Michelle, and who thinks the Rick Roll is still a thing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/365 "2016-07-19T13:46:12Z")
The rickrolling makes me think a speechwriter was deliberately screwing with the speech, either for a laugh or because they wanted to actually sabotage it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/366 "2016-07-19T13:47:46Z")
It’s obvious plagiarism. I can’t believe that anyone is sincerely arguing that maybe it isn’t. Of course, I’m not surprised that the Trump campaign and surrogates are arguing otherwise but it’s blatant. Melania claims to have written her speech so she’s either a plagiarist or a liar. Either way, it’s an embarrassment to the campaign. And that’s the real issue for Trump: The one story anyone is talking about this morning is how his wife ripped off a speech from Michelle Obama. When she concluded last night, it was about she did a good job and about Giuliani’s speech and now it’s just everyone pointing and laughing at what a dumpster fire this whole thing is. And I think mocking her accent is shitty. Conversely though, I see people who seem to be giving her the benefit of the doubt based on some bizarre fantasy that some naive girl from Slovenia could never do such a thing by herself. What, they don’t have people in Slovenia who lie, manipulate or steal? She’s not Cousin Balki – she can probably steal shit intentionally even without a sneaky speechwriter sabotaging her. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/367 "2016-07-19T13:52:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Look, I despise Donald Trump, but… > > … I am not wholly convinced of the accusation of plagiarism. The allegedly stolen lines are not quite identical, and express general, vague sentiments common in such speeches. Having some commonality in wording and turns of phrase is to be expected. It reads exactly how school children write when they are told they can’t quote directly, minor differences, but, and this is the important part, all the content in the exact same order. If there were some differences in the “general, vague sentiments” and the order they were presented you could call it “some commonality in wording and turns of phrase”, this however is straight up plagiarism. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/368 "2016-07-19T13:56:24Z")
> [@naita](#): > > It reads exactly how school children write when they are told they can’t quote directly, minor differences, but, and this is the important part, all the content in the exact same order. If there were some differences in the “general, vague sentiments” and the order they were presented you could call it “some commonality in wording and turns of phrase”, this however is straight up plagiarism. Yep. It reads exactly like that. I would have at least changed the order of the sentiments a bit and not cribbed phrases like “your word is your bond” (which, while a cliche, it sticks out to me like a sore thumb) for plausible deniability. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/369 "2016-07-19T14:03:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Re Melania’s speech: IT’S OBVIOUSLY HILLARY’S FAULT! > > C’mon, people, use your heads. :smack: And, now, satire is truly dead: > **[Trump campaign denies plagiarism in Melania's speech, blames reaction on Clinton](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/trump-campaign-denies-plagiarism-melanias-speech-blames-reaction-clinton/87282068/)** > > A part of Melania Trump's speech matched a Michelle Obama speech nearly word-for-word. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/370 "2016-07-19T14:04:07Z")
The fact that the plagiarism (and rickrolling!) are so obvious are signs that the Trump campaign really doesn’t have a process for this kind of thing. And I think they’re also signs that they were deliberately included by the speechwriter, either as a personal joke of some sort or as intentional sabotage (the kind that would have been picked up by a professional campaign operation, but that probably easily slips through Trump’s amateur process or lack thereof). ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/371 "2016-07-19T14:04:10Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > I agree that the odds of deliberate fuckery by speechwriters seem high. But I think it’s far more likely that they gave this to the least qualified person on their clown car of a speechwriting team, who really did think he had changed enough words that people wouldn’t notice he lifted the whole graf from Michelle, and who thinks the Rick Roll is still a thing. Yes, that comes across as Freshman year level “putting in your own words” by merely changing a couple of articles and inserting fillers. However, the audience IS likely to buy in to the “it’s just common phrases” explanation and I would not blame them, because, and I’ll have to dock Michelle’s writers for that too, it used what to many who have been listening to a lot of campaign speeches sounds by now like boilerplate language. Also, because what sort of writer would dare put one over on Trump the Great and Mighty. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/372 "2016-07-19T14:09:50Z")
Goofy hypothesizing - how do you think Donald is acting towards Melania and her writers today? -Is he pissed at this obvious unforced error? -Is he comforting her, saying it could have happened to anyone, or that the evil pressfolk are being unfair? -Is he gleeful about another crazy distraction which is giving his campaign unprecedented publicity at a time that it seems there is no such thing as bad publicity? -Other possibilities? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/373 "2016-07-19T14:18:04Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Goofy hypothesizing - how do you think Donald is acting towards Melania and her writers today? > -Is he pissed at this obvious unforced error? > -Is he comforting her, saying it could have happened to anyone, or that the evil pressfolk are being unfair? > -Is he gleeful about another crazy distraction which is giving his campaign unprecedented publicity at a time that it seems there is no such thing as bad publicity? > -Other possibilities? -Is he taking a long trip down a river in Egypt? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/374 "2016-07-19T14:22:53Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > And, now, satire is truly dead: > > [Trump campaign denies plagiarism in Melania's speech, blames reaction on Clinton](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/07/19/trump-campaign-denies-plagiarism-melanias-speech-blames-reaction-clinton/87282068/) From that article: > [@](#): > > New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, and the head of Trump’s White House transition team, appeared on NBC’s “Today” on Tuesday and said that just a fraction of the speech was similar. He said “93% of the speech is completely different than Michelle Obama’s speech." OMG. Plagarism is acceptable, if there’s only a little bit of it? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/375 "2016-07-19T14:28:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Look, I despise Donald Trump, but… > > … I am not wholly convinced of the accusation of plagiarism. The allegedly stolen lines are not quite identical, and express general, vague sentiments common in such speeches. Having some commonality in wording and turns of phrase is to be expected. > > I don’t understanding anything else Starving Artist is saying - Melania Trump is a symbol of nothing but the privilege you can get from screwing a rich person way older than you - but, meh, wannabe First Lady speeches all say the same thing. > > My primary criticism of Melania Trump would be that she is supporting the Presidential aspirations of a narcissistic sociopath who plans on using the office to rob the people of the United States of America and will hurt anyone who gets in the way of his doing that. > > ETA: As pointed out to me by SenorBeef in the Trump campaign thread, Melania Trump’s speech actually contains a Rickroll. So, the likelihood of the speechwriter(s) deliberately sabotaging it, or just screwing around because nobody in Trump’s team gives a shit, is significantly higher than I believed now that I am aware of this. So maybe I’m wrong about the plagiarism. If Melania’s speech had been this close to a speech that someone had made at some university, or some convention of teachers, or some other place, then I’d be more willing to consider it might be coincidence, even though I’d still find that unlikely. But since it was a speech that the current first lady made at her party’s national convention, it seems much more likely that an inexperienced speech writer googled “first lady speech” and used it as a big starting point, or someone in Trump’s camp was deliberately sabotaging things. And like you said, since there is also a Rickroll in the speech, I’m leaning more towards the sabotage angle. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/376 "2016-07-19T14:32:32Z")
Nobody thinks Melania wrote the speech herself, nor should she. She’s a bright woman, fluent in several languages, and she’s perfectly capable of doing it, but it’s expected that for such an occasion she’ll have professional help. One would assume that they first sought her input for what she might want to include and the overall theme, they’d make a draft and she’d make comments and after several cycles of drafts, comments, and practice sessions they’d be done. It’s malpractice on the part of the speechwriters to commit plagiarism and I don’t blame her a bit for it, I blame the incompetent campaign staff. They’re paying these people good money and they should be able to avoid plagiarizing. What was more disturbing was that the mother of a Benghazi victim has either become a professional victim or she’s being exploited and manipulated by Republicans into lying about Hillary. There simply was no stand down order, and to state that there was and that this caused her son’s death was a dirty lie. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/377 "2016-07-19T14:37:38Z")
Remember when the Republicans lambasted Joe Biden for plagiarism? Neither do they. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/378 "2016-07-19T14:41:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Nobody thinks Melania wrote the speech herself, nor should she. She’s a bright woman, fluent in several languages, and she’s perfectly capable of doing it, but it’s expected that for such an occasion she’ll have professional help. One would assume that they first sought her input for what she might want to include and the overall theme, they’d make a draft and she’d make comments and after several cycles of drafts, comments, and practice sessions they’d be done. It’s malpractice on the part of the speechwriters to commit plagiarism and I don’t blame her a bit for it, I blame the incompetent campaign staff. **They’re paying these people good money and they should be able to avoid plagiarizing.** > > What was more disturbing was that the mother of a Benghazi victim has either become a professional victim or she’s being exploited and manipulated by Republicans into lying about Hillary. There simply was no stand down order, and to state that there was and that this caused her son’s death was a dirty lie. This is the Trump campaign. Probably not. Did you catch that Donald called FoxNews for an interview during the mother’s speech? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/379 "2016-07-19T14:44:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > This is the Trump campaign. Probably not. > > Did you catch that Donald called FoxNews for an interview during the mother’s speech? Yes, there’s a reason that candidates shun the spotlight during their conventions, they don’t want to divert the attention from their own infomercial. Of course, the Donald apparently can’t breathe unless he’s in front of a camera. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/380 "2016-07-19T14:51:29Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Remember when the Republicans lambasted Joe Biden for plagiarism? Neither do they. They didn’t need to. His own party and media coverage was enough to cause him to drop out of the race over the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=20)