# The Republican national Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729 "2016-06-18T21:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/922 "2016-07-21T14:40:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now, I heard in passing that a) the Trump team totally knew exactly what Cruz was going to say and gave it their official Okey-Doke and b) that Cruz did submit a copy of his intended speech but then changed it when he got up in front. No reacharound, just a jolly good rogering. > > So, a), and they knew what he was gonna do but were cool with it for reasons that elude a reasoning person like myself or b) Cruz is a neutron density asshole who just couldn’t resist that chance to stick his thumb in Trump’s eye. > > Anyone got further evidence? Just a guess, but imagine that he’s aware enough to know that he might well lose to Hillary Clinton; how does he spin that? Does he say that Lyin’ Ted Cruz, the runner-up who raised his hand on live national television and pledged to endorse Trump, broke his oath and stabbed the great man in the back instead of unifying the party? Something about how Trump beat every Republican candidate, and would’ve beaten the [del]Democratic[/del] Democrat candidate, but he’s only one man and even he can’t run against two parties at once? That the best he could do was earn that pledge from men who couldn’t beat him, but could break their word to take his campaign down with them? Sure, it’s weak – but _any_ Here’s-Why-I-Didn’t-Win story he spins is going to be built around him losing for some reason; as reasons go, is this one sellable? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/923 "2016-07-21T14:40:52Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > You’ve heard some ideas and proposals? What channel were they on? All I’ve heard are “the terrorists are coming to get you” and “lock her up!” > > Seriously, though, you’re misrepresentin’ here. The press pretty clearly seems to think Melaniagate is an amusing sideshow, and the news here is more the knots the Trump Campaign has managed to tie itself into over this trivial issue, than the initial gaffe. This is supposed to be the guy who is going to make everything so wonderful because he’s gonna hire all the best of the best, but so far, I’ve gotta be honest here, his best people are not looking all that great. Right, in my mind it’s not a big deal, it’s mainly amusing, like the unfortunate initial Trump Pence logo. The first day of the convention basically all of the speeches were about how unsafe you are and terrorists are coming to get you. From what I heard, none of the speeches made a convincing argument about why you should vote for Trump, they just made arguments about why you should hide in your bunker from the terrorists and feminazis. But then Melania gave an actual optimistic speech that people liked. So the irony is that the only optimistic speech was inspired by and stole from Michelle Obama’s previous speech. > [@Princhester](#): > > What was the alternative? Wouldn’t Cruz _not_ speaking have stood out like dog’s testicles? Might be a smart move to get Cruz’s view on Trump onto the table so it’s old news rather than have his absence whispered about for the next few months. There are plenty of other Republicans who aren’t speaking at the convention, including the other candidates from this year. I don’t think John Kasich is there, and he’s the governor of the state that the convention is in. No previous Republican president or presidential nominee is speaking, and I read that the only previous nominee in attendance is Bob Dole. If Cruz hadn’t come it would be noted but it would be a minor blip. Letting him speak but pointedly not endorse Trump let him dominate the news story for once. His speech definitely overshadowed Pence. > [@DSeid](#): > > Trying to quantify for you … according to [this NYT article](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/us/white-supremacists-extend-their-reach-through-websites.html) Stormfront alone has about about “40,000 visitors a day” and “more than a million a month (a figure that includes repeat visitors).” And [their traffic is spiking with Trump](http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/12/10/donald_trump_has_been_great_for_white_supremacists.html), doubling even by last fall, and by now? > > Again, I think more than you think. > > And again, best ignored. Yeah, it was an innocent interrupted wave into point. Yeah. I’d guess that Trump is the only major Republican who doesn’t really care if he plays to white supremacists or not. Most don’t consciously pander to them, they pander to the much larger population of white people who of course think that all races are equal but are uncomfortable around black people, and who hate Muslim terrorists but because of the terrorism not because of the race. I don’t know much about Laura Ingraham, but I’d guess that she might have said some stuff about White Lives Matter, and how we should be suspicious of Syrian refugees, but I’d very much doubt she’s meaning to pander to white supremacists. We definitely should be aware of what white supremacists are doing and who they are supporting, but just because their number isn’t zero doesn’t mean that anyone on the RNC stage is sending out such obvious secret signals to them. Also, it’s a bad idea to accuse someone of doing a Nazi salute when it’s much more likely that it was just an interrupted wave or something weird like that, because it waters down arguments. Trump and other Republicans have said actually fascistic stuff, but if you point that out then some conservatives will just reference Godwin’s law. But at the same time if I was a Republican strategist, I’d make sure that every single person who goes out on stage was drilled a bit about how to wave to crowds so that it looked natural and didn’t inadvertently ever look like a Sieg Heil, just like I’d make sure someone reviewed every repeating graphic pattern, like on scarves or wrapping paper or whatever to be sure that there is nothing Swastika like accidentally in there. > [@Randolph](#): > > I don’t think so - some people are claiming they can see what she was doing, but there’s a lot of people who are saying that they can nazi it. Ok, this did make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/924 "2016-07-21T14:41:04Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > What was the alternative? Wouldn’t Cruz _not_ speaking have stood out like dog’s testicles? Might be a smart move to get Cruz’s view on Trump onto the table so it’s old news rather than have his absence whispered about for the next few months. When everyone else is absent, there’s no story if Ted Cruz is just as absent. There is nothing smart about allowing Cruz to do this. It’s Trump’s “47%” moment. There is no positive way to spin this - Cruz went on the stage and made the rift official and gave moderate Republicans (and yes, there are millions of them) a moral out for not voting for Trump. #VoteYourConscience ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/925 "2016-07-21T14:42:30Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It’s one thing to stand on your own feet, but yet another to go to someone else’s social event and shit all over it. If somebody called my wife ugly and insinuated that my father was involved in a murderous conspiracy, they’d get off lightly if I shit on their parade rather than punching their lights out. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/926 "2016-07-21T14:45:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I wonder if the Trumpers are so inexperienced at politics that they didn’t realise the difference that a skilled speaker like Ted can do with a text, and turn what looks like a bland “no endorsement” into a shivved in the back. It’s all in the delivery. > > (I’ve always said Ted is a smart guy. I think this episode is a good example of his smarts and street fighting skills. Also shows why his Senate colleagues hate him, if he does that sort of thing with them…) I hate Ted Cruz with the force of a thousand suns, but he is a skilled orator. If you listen to a replay of the speech last night, listen for his cadence, and how and when he uses pauses, and when he varies his tone and register. A skilled speaker can completely change the impact and meaning of a phrase by emphasizing or de-emphasizing sections or words. I think Ted sent his transcript to the Big Cheeto, and “hey, this doesn’t look so bad” was DT’s evaluation. The Ted delivered it, with intent. Bam. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/927 "2016-07-21T14:46:43Z")
> [@AnalogSignal](#): > > Dummy Trump knew Cruz would not endorse and let it happen anyway. Trump is an idiot. I am reminded of the scene in _Julius Caesar_ where Cassius tries to talk Brutus out of his bright idea of letting Marc Antony speak at the funeral. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/928 "2016-07-21T14:47:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I think the screen is on her left side, and she is not looking at it, but at the audience. FWIW look at it context [here](http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/laura-ingraham-accused-of-making-nazi-salute-during-rnc-w430193). It was at the end of her exhortation of “let’s elect Donald Trump … and God Bless the United States of America” at the end of a speech in which that Trump image was there the whole time, a turn immediately toward the image, looking in that direction, apparently eyes fixed on that point, arm stiff out immediately, held, then eyes move away as goes into the wave. That was not a generic looking into the broad audience. It ending her speech, fixing her eyes on a specific spot, then turning to it, aiming, saluting, and releasing her gaze and salute from the spot at the same time as she turned into the wave. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/929 "2016-07-21T14:48:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Now, I heard in passing that a) the Trump team totally knew exactly what Cruz was going to say and gave it their official Okey-Doke and b) that Cruz did submit a copy of his intended speech but then changed it when he got up in front. After Camp Trump changed their story about Melania’s speech a half dozen times in two days, I wouldn’t believe them for a second when they insist that they knew all along. Here’s [Trump & Family](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/rnc-2016-donald-trump-unity-225915) watching Cruz’s speech. Those pissy bitch-faces could curdle milk, especially the one on Trump. No way of knowing for sure but that doesn’t look like a guy who knew well in advance what Cruz would say and was totally cool with it. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/930 "2016-07-21T14:56:45Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > I don’t think so - some people are claiming they can see what she was doing, but there’s a lot of people who are saying that they can nazi it. Yeah, I’m really not sure either way. It’s difficult to SS. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/931 "2016-07-21T14:58:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW look at it context [here](http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/laura-ingraham-accused-of-making-nazi-salute-during-rnc-w430193). It was at the end of her exhortation of “let’s elect Donald Trump … and God Bless the United States of America” at the end of a speech in which that Trump image was there the whole time, a turn immediately toward the image, looking in that direction, apparently eyes fixed on that point, arm stiff out immediately, held, then eyes move away as goes into the wave. > > That was not a generic looking into the broad audience. It ending her speech, fixing her eyes on a specific spot, then turning to it, aiming, saluting, and releasing her gaze and salute from the spot at the same time as she turned into the wave. Well, I am skeptical of anything as overt as her actually doing a Heil Donald there, but that was certainly…odd. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/932 "2016-07-21T14:58:52Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > If these reports are true, then we need to seriously reevaluate Trump’s “Art of the Deal”, because that is some horrible deal making there. The Big Cheeto needed Cruz to speak, hoping that it would curry him some favor with the evangelicals, but he should have negotiated Cruz into accepting a slot on Monday, which is where you hide speakers who may not 100% agree with you. I hate to give Trump credit, and I’m still not sure this played out quite the way he wanted, but the way I see it you have two options for converting die-hard Cruz supporters. 1. Have Cruz speak early in the week, without an endorsement, and some weak “vote your conscience” language. Hope it gets little play and the rest of your convention convinces them you are the guy their “conscience” makes them vote. Leaves Cruz with quite a bit of control/relevance going forward (both this year and in the future). Or don’t have him speak at all (like Kasich). 2. Let Cruz speak in a prime spot, without an endorsement, basically taking a dump in the middle of your stage/party. Know there will be (or even orchestrate) significant discontent and booing in the crowd, and time your entrance to get maximum “me vs. him” optics with the adoring masses clamoring for you and booing Cruz off the stage. Know the press will cover it like crazy, endlessly replaying Cruz getting roundly razzed. Leaves Cruz pretty marginalized and (IMO at least) looking like even more of a shit-heel than he is by nature. I think an alpha-male like Trump considers option 2 a much preferable situation. Remember, free publicity is the oxygen that makes his campaign breathe, and putting other people “in their place” is what he seems to get off on more than anything. It was very WWE, and not unintentionally. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/933 "2016-07-21T15:02:07Z")
Yeah, but the American electorate is not the WWE audience. If there’s some sort of bizarro revenge wrestling allegory going on here, it’s just not translating that way. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/934 "2016-07-21T15:09:39Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It’s just an interrupted wave, and not a big deal…unless you count all of the other things Trump and his supporters have said. It does _not_ make minorities feel good about living in this country! > ETA: And you all, stop it with the puns! Bad! He who would pun would pick a pocket! Anyway puns are only funny when I tell them. 😃 So, what you’re saying is that you’ve got the reich stuff. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/935 "2016-07-21T15:13:39Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah, but the American electorate is not the WWE audience. If there’s some sort of bizarro revenge wrestling allegory going on here, it’s just not translating that way. I hadn’t really thought about it this way until right now, but I do think that the overlap between Trump voters and WWE fans is probably pretty big. Tough, aggressive, “winner”, brash, charismatic - the attributes of a successful WWE performer and the adjectives most used by Trump supporters are pretty damn similar. I guess I’ll wait to see what the polls show, but I’m not sure I’d put much stock in the way last night was translated by CNN etc (or SDMB for that matter) - they’ve all been very wrong about the impact of Trump’s behavior on the ~35% of the country that seems to love the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Peanut\_Gallery](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/838e76/32.png) [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/936 "2016-07-21T15:18:01Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah, but the American electorate is not the WWE audience. That’s where you are wrong. And that’s why I expect Trump to win. The overconfidence of Democrats and reasonable people thinking they are not outnumbered by WWE-Americans. Last night on Maher’s show, a guest (Trump’s ghostwriter, good perspective) said “This is a guy who hasn’t read a book all the way through for his entire adult life!” Michael Moore had to point out to him that while he says that with (justifiable) derision, he is talking about more than half of America right there. And that’s why the race is tied. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/937 "2016-07-21T15:21:34Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Well, I am skeptical of anything as overt as her actually doing a Heil Donald there, but that was certainly…odd. Dunno. I’m pretty sure you can hear her heels click in that clip. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/938 "2016-07-21T15:23:38Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I think an alpha-male like Trump considers option 2 a much preferable situation. Remember, free publicity is the oxygen that makes his campaign breathe, and putting other people “in their place” is what he seems to get off on more than anything. > > It was very WWE, and not unintentionally. I don’t buy it. The only story this morning was Cruz shitting on Trump. None of the other speeches or events got so much as a nod. Melania’s speech stole two days worth of convention momentum. I know there’s people who believe in “any publicity is good publicity” but the convention was going to get publicity anyway without these stories that make Trump a laughingstock and choke out any positive word from the other speakers. People are trying to put a brave face on it but this convention’s been a shit-show. > [@](#): > > they’ve all been very wrong about the impact of Trump’s behavior on the ~35% of the country that seems to love the guy. It’s the other 15% that’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/939 "2016-07-21T15:27:32Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > I hate Ted Cruz with the force of a thousand suns, but he is a skilled orator. If you listen to a replay of the speech last night, listen for his cadence, and how and when he uses pauses, and when he varies his tone and register. A skilled speaker can completely change the impact and meaning of a phrase by emphasizing or de-emphasizing sections or words. I think Ted sent his transcript to the Big Cheeto, and “hey, this doesn’t look so bad” was DT’s evaluation. The Ted delivered it, with intent. Bam. The snag in this theory is that it’s impossible to imagine Trump doing anything other than looking for the words “Donald Trump” in the transcript, or his being okay with them only appearing once. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/940 "2016-07-21T15:36:29Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Here’s [Trump & Family](http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/rnc-2016-donald-trump-unity-225915) watching Cruz’s speech. Those pissy bitch-faces could curdle milk, especially the one on Trump. No way of knowing for sure but that doesn’t look like a guy who knew well in advance what Cruz would say and was totally cool with it. With his thin skin, I wonder how much time he’ll waste focusing his vitriol on Cruz before remembering that he ought to be doing something to attack Whatzername. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/941 "2016-07-21T15:40:40Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > FWIW look at it context [here](http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/laura-ingraham-accused-of-making-nazi-salute-during-rnc-w430193). It was at the end of her exhortation of “let’s elect Donald Trump … and God Bless the United States of America” at the end of a speech in which that Trump image was there the whole time, a turn immediately toward the image, looking in that direction, apparently eyes fixed on that point, arm stiff out immediately, held, then eyes move away as goes into the wave. > > That was not a generic looking into the broad audience. It ending her speech, fixing her eyes on a specific spot, then turning to it, aiming, saluting, and releasing her gaze and salute from the spot at the same time as she turned into the wave. You think there is a memo from the DNC/Hillary campaign going out to every speaker at the Democratic convention saying “Remember to BEND THE F\*\*\*\*\*\* ELBOW!”? Seriously, The Democrats, if they are smart, won’t say a word about it, or just say it was inadvertent and of course was not a nazi salute, nope, nope nope…the picture is out there, it is being seen by millions, and they really don’t have to do a damn thing. So Trump speaks tonight…one of two things will happen, he’ll make a good, albeit traditional speech that has been crafted and tested by professional speechwriters, or he’ll go off on his own tangent, and who the hell knows what comes out. The first is the best thing to do, but the second is the Trump thing to do. Place your bets, folks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=48)