# The Republican national Convention **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729 "2016-06-18T21:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1302 "2016-07-22T13:22:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s nothing that Americans all feel – some want these policies, some want other policies. This kind of generic statement about discontent is meaningless pablum. If it was meaningless, politicians without much DC experience wouldn’t expend so much effort running against DC. The last out and proud DC apologist to win was LBJ. Carter, Clinton, and Obama all ran against “Business as usual”, “old-style politics”, etc. Carter and Clinton actually did implement some real changes, so it’s not JUST a campaign slogan. Hillary isn’t going there though, she’s standing by Obama, which by necessity means supporting the status quo. Besides which, she’s become very good at learning how DC works, she’s not going to upend the very system she’s been so good at working in. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1303 "2016-07-22T13:23:48Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Now it’s officially the party of Hate and Fear vs. the party of Hope and Change. I am under the impression that, after last night’s speech, it is the party of “LAHR AND ORDUH!!!” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1304 "2016-07-22T13:25:01Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Like the incredibly partisan idea that the Pres nominates the Supreme Court Justices? While I agree that’s really, really bad, replacing conservative justices with liberal justices is also not changing Washington or changing politics. Now if Obama nominated someone who didn’t have a liberal record, but nominated someone strictly based on their qualifications and intelligence, that would be change. But I don’t see either party going that far anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1305 "2016-07-22T13:25:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Change in policy, but not a change in politics and certainly not a change to the system. But Clinton is of course free to try to make that argument, that policies the Democrats have wanted since Clinton was a young 'un constitute change. If they have not yet been implemented, then of course they do. > [@adaher](#): > > I’m seeing a common theme here. The change we want is standard Democratic policies implemented. > > Okay, run with that. Good luck. We will, or we should. To do otherwise would be really stupid. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > What Starving Artist said would happen if Trump behaved that way is exactly what happened, isn’t it? He couldn’t get the financing and relationships to build for himself anymore. So he stopped building and started just licensing his brand out to others. I like this theory, but I’m wondering why just the name of the building wouldn’t make contractors skittish. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1306 "2016-07-22T13:28:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If it was meaningless, politicians without much DC experience wouldn’t expend so much effort running against DC. The last out and proud DC apologist to win was LBJ. Carter, Clinton, and Obama all ran against “Business as usual”, “old-style politics”, etc. > > Carter and Clinton actually did implement some real changes, so it’s not JUST a campaign slogan. Hillary isn’t going there though, she’s standing by Obama, which by necessity means supporting the status quo. Besides which, she’s become very good at learning how DC works, she’s not going to upend the very system she’s been so good at working in. It’s a real political strategy, but it’s still meaningless pablum, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1307 "2016-07-22T13:31:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > We will, or we should. To do otherwise would be really stupid. > . On the contrary, as I said above, the last Democratic candidate to win promising only policy change rather than changing Washington or politics in general was LBJ. Carter, Bill Clinton, and Obama all ran against “politics as usual”. Candidates who ran as Clinton did, proposing only standard Democratic policies without attacking the WAY DC does business: Kerry, Gore, Mondale, Humphrey. This has been a rather long debate, but my argument is simple: Trump’s argument that the political class has failed and that Clinton represents that political class is the most effective argument he has. I’m not sure why that’s in dispute. Do any of you believe he has a MORE effective argument than that, or must we defend the Democratic nominee against all attacks no matter their accuracy? To contend that Clinton has oodles of experience, the most experience we’ve ever seen in a Presidential candidate, but also represents change, is to engage in Trump-style hyperbole. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1308 "2016-07-22T13:31:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > While I agree that’s really, really bad, replacing conservative justices with liberal justices is also not changing Washington or changing politics. > > Now if Obama nominated someone who didn’t have a liberal record, but nominated someone strictly based on their qualifications and intelligence, that would be change. But I don’t see either party going that far anytime soon. 1. Garland isn’t exactly a raging liberal; and 1. that wasn’t the point. You claimed “All the GOP blocked him on was standard Democratic policies…” and I pointed out that your claim was false, eg blocking a supreme ct nominee, and rather than acknowledge that your statement was in error, you moved the goalposts to “but it’s not changing Washington”. Please clearly acknowledge that your statement “All the GOP blocked him on was standard Democratic policies…” is false. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1309 "2016-07-22T13:32:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s nothing that Americans all feel – some want these policies, some want other policies. This kind of generic statement about discontent is meaningless pablum. Jon Stewart appeared on Colbert’s show last night & had a few words to say about being American… > [@](#): > > You just want that person to give you your country back, because you feel you’re this country’s rightful owners. There’s only one problem with that: This country isn’t yours. You don’t own it. It never was. There is no ‘real’ America. You don’t own it. You don’t own patriotism. You don’t own Christianity. You sure as hell don’t own respect for the bravery and sacrifice of military, police, and firefighters… You can see the full clip [on this page](http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/tv/ct-late-night-rnc-comedy-20160721-column.html). Which is a summary of humorous commentary on the debacle just witnessed. I also like this one: > [@](#): > > Colbert took note of Trump’s direct appeal to Democratic primary voters who backed the runner-up, Sen. Bernie Sanders: “Makes sense. If his supporters can’t have Bernie, they’ll go to Trump. Kind of like if you ask for a Coke but they don’t have it, you say, ‘Then just fill my mouth with bees.’ ” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1310 "2016-07-22T13:36:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a real political strategy, but it’s still meaningless pablum, for the most part. But a) a real political strategy Clinton is not pursuing, and b) it can translate into real changes. The GOP made significant changes both times they won back Congress, and Carter and Clinton made changes early in their tenures to how the executive branch works. Nothing they did required Congress, so it was one of those “First 100 days” acts which were very helpful at demonstrating seriousness to those who elected them. DC being DC, no matter how much you change things there will be attempts to get around the changes or restore the status quo that special interests benefit from, so it’s a constant battle. But it’s not JUST politics. If Trump is elected, he’s going to actually do more within the executive branch to change the way things work than he will with Congress. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1311 "2016-07-22T13:38:07Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > 1. Garland isn’t exactly a raging liberal; and > > 1. that wasn’t the point. You claimed “All the GOP blocked him on was standard Democratic policies…” and I pointed out that your claim was false, eg blocking a supreme ct nominee, and rather than acknowledge that your statement was in error, you moved the goalposts to “but it’s not changing Washington”. > Please clearly acknowledge that your statement “All the GOP blocked him on was standard Democratic policies…” is false. > I’ll wait. Um, appointing a liberal SCOTUS nominee is a fairly standard Democratic policy. When was the last time a Democratic President nominated a conservative or even swing vote on the court? You’ve got your semantics all messed up. The GOP is engaging in non-standard tactics to block Obama’s actions, but the actions being blocked are standard. The GOP has not been standing in the way of Obama wanting to change Washington. He hasn’t actually proposed any changes to the way Washington does things. In fact, he’s embraced business as usual as the best way to get his policies passed. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1312 "2016-07-22T13:44:47Z")
I know this is pointless, but c’mon. I’ve got my semantics screwed up? Obama nominated a Justice, and the Rs refuse to even have a vote. That goes way beyond your “all the Rs did…” line. What the Rs did was unprecedented. Quit dragging your sideshow of “but it isn’t really change…” thing, that isn’t the point. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1313 "2016-07-22T13:49:38Z")
As opposed to real change, like Congressmembers agreeing among themselves that they’ll prepend the text “In accordance with Article 1, Section 8…” to the beginning of all bills, at least until they don’t feel like it any more? I mean, that’s right up there with resolutions to rename post offices. And you don’t get much bigger changes than that. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1314 "2016-07-22T13:49:52Z")
Did the GOP block proposed changes that Obama proposed that change the way DC does business or change politics? This shouldn’t be a tough question to answer. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1315 "2016-07-22T13:57:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Did the GOP block proposed changes that Obama proposed that change the way DC does business or change politics? This shouldn’t be a tough question to answer. Pretty tough to read, though. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1316 "2016-07-22T13:58:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Um, appointing a liberal SCOTUS nominee is a fairly standard Democratic policy. When was the last time a Democratic President nominated a conservative or even swing vote on the court? > > You’ve got your semantics all messed up. The GOP is engaging in non-standard tactics to block Obama’s actions, but the actions being blocked are standard. The GOP has not been standing in the way of Obama wanting to change Washington. He hasn’t actually proposed any changes to the way Washington does things. In fact, he’s embraced business as usual as the best way to get his policies passed. Yeah, when’s the last time they actively tried to sabotage their platform!? What a fucking joke. Just because the GOP filibusters their own bills doesn’t mean that’s rational or a correct thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1317 "2016-07-22T14:14:11Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s about as silly as demonizing some fictitious bogeyman who wants to remove the words “Under God” from [heavenly choir/] The Pledge of Allegiance [\heavenly choir]. Without comment on the rest of the reasons it might be silly, I will point out that “fictitious,” is not a correct characterization here. There are actual real people who have this goal, and have taken substantial steps to further their goal. See Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1318 "2016-07-22T14:15:56Z")
I want to remove “under God” from the pledge and our money! Any time I say the pledge, I keep silent for those two words. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1319 "2016-07-22T14:19:10Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I want to remove “under God” from the pledge and our money! Any time I say the pledge, I keep silent for those two words. Ditto, it’s a real and worthy cause. Not terribly important in the whole scheme of things, but it would be nice to see that done eventually. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1320 "2016-07-22T14:24:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Without comment on the rest of the reasons it might be silly, I will point out that “fictitious,” is not a correct characterization here. There are actual real people who have this goal, and have taken substantial steps to further their goal. See Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District. Thanks for the information. I was unaware of this case and after a cursory googling, yes there was at least one attempt to remove those words. But I maintain the point that conservatives obsess over this way out of proportion to its importance, which I claim is zero. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729/1321 "2016-07-22T14:34:09Z")
CNN fact-checked Trump’s acceptance speech - he actually did a bit better than I expected: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/politics/gop-convention-speeches-fact-check/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/21/politics/gop-convention-speeches-fact-check/index.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-national-convention/757729.md?page=67)