# The Republican War on Voting Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 11, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723 "2021-03-11T17:30:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/741 "2022-11-03T22:58:10Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > > > Right? A man wearing body armor, carrying a rifle, and yelling is obviously intimidating even if each of those things is legal. It’s difficult to see how someone could argue otherwise. > > I agree this is clearly intimidation. However, not all posters in this thread would agree. For one in particular this was just fine and was protected by the 1st and 2nd Amendments. Nice to see this judge finally disagreed. If the goal is to _observe_ election procedures, why would anyone need tactical gear, camo, or weapons…??? I have yet to see any right-wingers explain. Clearly to anyone of good faith, the goal is something _other_ than merely observing or monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/742 "2022-11-03T23:14:57Z")
To be fair, those who don’t consider it to be intimidation would also be fine with the same group of armed, masked men engaging in the exact same behaviors outside the posters’ homes. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/743 "2022-11-04T01:32:24Z")
You are correct. Those arguing it is allowable rely on the supposed “constitutionality” of said behavior. I for one didn’t think they are arguing in good faith because as you state, the goal is something other than merely observing or monitoring. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/744 "2022-11-04T12:52:28Z")
Proud Boys facing charges for storming the capitol as poll workers? Okay, that is a bit much. BUT, I think run-of-the-mill MAGA fraud-claimers SHOULD work the polls (with proper training, of course). Then they’ll see first-hand how it’s nearly impossible to pull off any kind of election-changing-scale voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/745 "2022-11-04T13:26:10Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Then they’ll see first-hand how it’s nearly impossible to pull off any kind of election-changing-scale voter fraud. Or they’ll just fuck everything up to cast suspicion on all the votes at that location (and by extension, everywhere). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/746 "2022-11-04T13:34:48Z")
Yeah, that’d only work if they actually wanted to learn anything. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/747 "2022-11-04T23:02:13Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > You are correct. Those arguing it is allowable rely on the supposed “constitutionality” of said behavior. I for one didn’t think they are arguing in good faith because as you state, the goal is something other than merely observing or monitoring. Yes. Sometimes common sense is worth the extra work it takes to introduce it into the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/748 "2022-11-04T23:13:45Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I agree this is clearly intimidation. However, not all posters in this thread would agree. For one in particular this was just fine and was protected by the 1st and 2nd Amendments. Nice to see this judge finally disagreed. Once evidence of intimidation was submitted. You can’t just say “Hey, there are dudes carrying guns (in an open carry state, where that is common) and wearing masks” (still covid around) and say that means it has to be intimidation. You need some evidence that those dudes were _acting in an intimidating manner,_ and that evidence was supplied. I suspect most of the posters here that were appalled at the very idea of the guns are not from open carry states. I have been to AZ and dudes carrying six-guns etc are in evidence. Probably jerkwads with AK47s in the Walmart too. (You wanna carry around a pistol in a holster- fine, but a AR15 is just fucking stupid). I suspected they were trying to intimidate, but you need more evidence other than “guns= bad”. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/749 "2022-11-05T00:08:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I suspected they were trying to intimidate, but you need more evidence other than “guns= bad”. They had more than that from go. These folks were yelling at people. They were following people back to their cars after those people voted. An armed man, wearing body armor, yelling, and following someone is on its face intimidating. There’s a lot more to this than “guns = bad”, and it’s a bit silly to keep insisting that that’s all this is about. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/750 "2022-11-05T01:35:58Z")
I have never said anything that remotely resembles “guns=bad”. I have gone target shooting throughout my life and have no particular fear of guns. HOWEVER, anyone who parades around in public with a long gun strapped to them is doing so for one of two reason only - to intimidate others or to make up for what they view as shortcomings in their “manliness”. Concealed or open carry of a pistol is not what we are talking about and not what these buffoons are doing for the most part. There is no reason to walk around in public with a rifle. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/751 "2022-11-05T05:40:21Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > There is no reason to walk around in public with a rifle. Period. Maybe…[Omaha zoo sends warning after rhino escapes enclosure | AP News](https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-animals-omaha-rhinoceros-cf1b29bc8a35d7ebb4694138ee93e037) 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/752 "2022-11-05T18:00:23Z")
What if it’s a RINO? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/753 "2022-11-05T18:15:10Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > These folks were yelling at people. They were following people back to their cars after those people voted. Was that provided to the Judge in the first case? From what I heard- there was no such evidence provided. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/754 "2022-11-05T18:39:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Was that provided to the Judge in the first case? From what I heard- there was no such evidence provided. Yes. You could read the articles instead of relying on what you’ve heard. The judge in the first case, who declined to issue an injunction, is the same judge who later issued a restraining against the exact behavior I described, in the same case. One judge. One case. Pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/755 "2022-11-06T01:25:48Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > The judge in the first case, who declined to issue an injunction, is the same judge who later issued a restraining against the exact behavior I described, in the same case. > > One judge. One case. I know that it was the same judge, but from what I read the judge changed his decision after getting evidence. But it was NOT one case. TWO cases. > **[Group accused of voter intimidation must stay clear of ballot boxes, judge rules](https://abcnews.go.com/US/group-accused-voter-intimidation-stay-clear-ballot-boxes/story?id=92570068)** > > Members of a group accused of voter intimidation have been banned from coming within 75 feet of ballot drop boxes in Arizona, a federal judge has ordered. _U.S. District Court Judge Michael Liburdi, in an unexpected reversal of an [earlier ruling](https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-arizona-denies-injunction-block-group-gathering-ballot/story?id=92315573) in a related case, granted a motion Tuesday for a restraining order in a case consolidating a lawsuit brought by the nonprofit advocacy groups Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and Voto Latino with a similar suit brought by the League of Women Voters of Arizona._ _[\* ## MORE: 10 cases of alleged Arizona voter intimidation referred to DOJ \*](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cases-alleged-arizona-voter-intimidation-referred-doj/story?id=92054635)_ _Both lawsuits accused Clean Elections USA and the group’s founder, Melody Jennings, of carrying out surveillance of voters in a “coordinated vigilante intimidation campaign” at ballot drop box locations, “with the express purpose of deterring voters … from depositing their ballots.”_ The earlier case: > **[Federal judge won't stop groups accused of 'vigilante intimidation campaign’...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-arizona-denies-injunction-block-group-gathering-ballot/story?id=92315573)** > > A judge in Arizona Friday declined to issue an injunction to block 10 individuals accused of voter intimidation from gathering near ballot boxes and surveilling voters. _In his ruling, the judge said he found that “defendants’ conduct does not fall into any traditionally recognized category of voter intimidation” and that the plaintiffs lacked “evidence that Defendants’ conduct constitutes a true threat.”_ **plaintiffs lacked "evidence** Two groups, two related cases, first one dismissed for lack of evidence, thus it appears that the second suit submitted evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/756 "2022-11-06T01:33:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Two groups, two related cases, first one dismissed for lack of evidence, thus it appears that the second suit submitted evidence. Same plaintiffs in both lawsuits and the same evidence. The motion requesting an injunction was denied. The motion requesting a restraining order was granted. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/757 "2022-11-06T01:36:05Z")
“brought by the nonprofit advocacy groups Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and Voto Latino with a similar suit brought by the League of Women Voters of Arizona.” And have you seen what evidence was provided in both suits? The first was dismissed for lack of evidence, and the second succeeded- which means more and/or better evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/758 "2022-11-06T01:38:51Z")
It wasn’t dismissed. The motion requesting an injunction wasn’t granted. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/759 "2022-11-06T01:51:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “brought by the nonprofit advocacy groups Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and Voto Latino with a similar suit brought by the League of Women Voters of Arizona.” It’s weird that you quoted part of a sentence. Why would someone do that? I wonder what the whole sentence says. > U.S. District Court Judge Michael Liburdi, in an unexpected reversal of an [earlier ruling](https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-arizona-denies-injunction-block-group-gathering-ballot/story?id=92315573) in a related case, granted a motion Tuesday for a restraining order in a case consolidating a lawsuit brought by the nonprofit advocacy groups Arizona Alliance for Retired Americans and Voto Latino with a similar suit brought by the League of Women Voters of Arizona. And here are two paragraphs from the article about the Judge denying the motions. > Voto Latino and Arizona Alliance also filed motions asking the court to grant a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction to bar the defendants from “gathering within sight of drop boxes; from following, taking photos of, or otherwise recording voters or prospective voters, those assisting voters or prospective voters, or their vehicles at or around a drop box; and from training, organizing, or directing others to do the same.” > > In his order denying both motions, U.S. District Court Judge Michael Liburdi said he “acknowledge[d] that Plaintiffs and many voters are legitimately alarmed by the observers,” but ultimately ruled that the requested preliminary injunctive relief “implicates serious First Amendment considerations.” Voto Latino and Arizona alliance filed two motions. One requesting am injunction and a second requesting a restraining order. Initially the judge denied both requests. Later he reversed his decision on one of those requests and granted the request for a restraining order. Same lawsuit. Same motion. Same evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2022, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723/760 "2022-11-06T09:52:52Z")
And out of [Wisconsin](https://goodwordnews.com/wisconsin-lawmaker-sues-to-stop-immediate-military-ballot-count/), there is a lawmaker suing to stop the counting of military ballots. > MADISON, Wis. – A Wisconsin lawmaker who often promoted false election claims is suing to stop the immediate counting of military ballots in her state after she received three ballots under false names. > > The lawsuit, filed on Friday, was brought by a group of veterans and three people, including Rep. Janel Brandtjen (R), chair of the State Assembly Elections Committee. > > Last week, Brandtjen received three military ballots in fictitious names allegedly sent to him by Kimberly Zapata, a Milwaukee election official. Election officials criticized Brandtjen for spreading false claims about the system, and Zapata later told prosecutors she was trying to alert Brandtjen to a real weakness in the state’s voting system that should be fixed. > > Unlike most states, Wisconsin allows service members to vote without registering to vote or providing proof of residency. Military ballots make up a tiny fraction of votes in Wisconsin — about 1,400 so far for Tuesday’s election. Read the rest of the article; it’s very short. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republican-war-on-voting-thread/937723.md?page=39)