# The Republicans are Fucking Hypocrites **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2000, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802 "2000-11-11T17:48:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/1 "2000-11-11T17:48:40Z")
After all of the bitching by the GOP (and the Bush supporters on this board) about the Gore camp seeking to move the election from the voters to the courts, the GOP has now filed a lawsuit in Federal court to stop the manual recount in Palm Beach County. I’m sick of the high-minded retoric about how the ballot box should be sacrosanct. If that is true, shouldn’t we try to get the best possible count from the ballot box? The PBC hand recount is being done for three precincts with about 1% of the votes. The idea is to see if there was some sort of systematic error with the machines. The count is being overseen by both Democratic and Republican observers. But now the Republicans say (before the limited sample is even reviewed) that somehow the machine count is “better” and that hand counting (note that this is carefully observed hand counting) will somehow be deficient. I thought that an important part of the Republican platform was the right of state officials to function without the intereference of the Federal Government. Let the damn state election officials do their work, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![Homer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/df788c/32.png) [@Homer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/2 "2000-11-11T17:52:44Z")
Perhaps the Democrats concede defeat and stop demanding recount after recount after recount ad infinitum until the results are in line with the Democrat’s expected or wanted results. Why does the margin creep thinner and thinner at every recount? This is by far the most disgusting display of self interest, greed, and self-serving anti-patriotism that I have ever seen. This makes me fucking sick to watch the Democrats take a big, fat shit on America. –Tim ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/3 "2000-11-11T18:02:00Z")
Homer, love, Gore has demanded one recount. The first one was recquired by Florida law. Also, just cuz the Dems “demand” it doesn’t mean they are going to get it. The Canvasing board has to agree to it. And they did. I guess it’s a case of Fuzzy Numbers, right? one=recount and recount. So, why don’t you calm down and take a few minutes to use the soft, grey matter between your ears. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/4 "2000-11-11T18:06:07Z")
I agree that I am disappointed the Republicans have sunk to the Democrats’ level and want to litigate this. But I can understand their frustration. > [@](#): > > shouldn’t we try to get the best possible count from the ballot box? Or, “let’s keep counting, and bending established election law to include votes that weren’t cast properly, votes that have been discounted in **every other election we’ve ever held** , until Gore wins.” ---
**Author:** ![Major\_Feelgud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/5 "2000-11-11T18:13:58Z")
A manual recount by hand is less accurate than a machine recount. I have no idea why the dems want a hand recount. Maybe they want mistakes and more controversy? ---
**Author:** ![Amulet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Amulet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amulet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/6 "2000-11-11T18:25:44Z")
Before the state recount was even completed, Gore & Co were already saying they would support any legal action brought forth challenging the election. They have set up shop in PBC strip malls to _solicit_ affadavits from unhappy voters. They are actively seeking them out, a detestable and unethical move at best. They have already come out and said that should Bush win, the election is illegitimate. I don’t blame Bush for stopping the hand recount, it is utterly ridiculous. He’s won the state twice now, there is no reason for this to continue happening. Florida has used this same sort of system for years (ever since I’ve been voting, and I am 29 now). Complaints about ballot legalities should have been lodged long before now. Complaints about the antiquated equipment should have been lodged long before now. The fact that Gore & Co are not happy with the results is irrelevant. BTW, I voted Libertarian for Pres, Democrat for Senate, Republican for the House. I am not biased, though I will guaran-fuckin’-tee that if somehow there is a statewide revote (they could not limit it to PBC, it is a statewide election), I’ll be out there campaigning night and fucking day for Bush. At any rate, there are numbers next to the holes on the ballot that correspond to a number next to a candidate’s name. Any half-wit can compare the number punched on the ballot with the number corresponding to the candidate and tell whether or not s/he voted for the right person. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/7 "2000-11-11T18:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Major Feelgud \* > \*\*A manual recount by hand is less accurate than a machine recount. I have no idea why the dems want a hand recount. Maybe they want mistakes and more controversy? \*\* Major, do you have a citation for this? I could understand a statement that in general mechanically tabulated votes would probably be more accurate than a routine hand count, but in the case of a recount of a close election (particularly one of this importance), I think an actual examination of the ballots by human beings (with observers from both parties) is more accurate. I can understand a concern that a manual recount may lead to the recognition of votes of a class that might not be otherwise recognized (i.e. ballot cards that were inserted upside down and were therefore marked but not punched), but the appropriate time to answer questions about the validity of such ballots is after they’ve been examined. Personally, as a voter, I would be damn pissed if my vote were not counted because I had mostly (but not entirely) pucnched a hole so that the machine could not read it, but any reasonable human observer could see the clear intent. Now in New York, where I vote, I use a [voting machine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=45800), so there are none of the problems attendant with punching ballots (though there are certain other rare problems). However, in New York and elsewhere, recounts and election litigation are common. From what I have read, Florida has law and procedures regarding ballotting and recounts. It galls me to see the Republicans asking the federal courts to interfere with the process as it is going on, particularly because it is clear that the reason that they are seeking to stop the process in place at this time is because they are are at a point of (perhaps temporary) advantage. It’s like being up by two points in the middle of the fourth quarter, and saying we’re ahead so therefore there is no reason to play the last few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/8 "2000-11-11T18:40:34Z")
What I find slightly more hypocritical is the fact that the Bush camp is discussing calling for recounts in Wisconsin and Iowa. Um…isn’t that doing exactly what they accuse Gore of doing? Recounting until they get an outcome they like? ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/9 "2000-11-11T20:02:38Z")
DB, my friend, I don’t believe any Republicans had any problems with a Florida re-count. I think a re-count is certainly in order in New Mexica as well, based on the closeness of the almost-complete tabulations. Perhaps Iowa as well (is that the one where they are separated by fewer than 2,000 votes?) As James Baker said, the vote in Florida has been counted. It’s been re-counted. Now they want to take it to a step that will be less accurate, and can only cause mistakes/fraud that favors Gore. It’s bullshit. They never, ever before counted the kinds of ballots the Democrats want them to count now. Next Friday, when the final overseas ballots are counted and the election results are made official by Florida canvassars, this puppy is over. And fuck Gore and his shit-stirring, lowest-common-denominator minions if they try to declare otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/10 "2000-11-11T20:20:22Z")
Its funny how no ones accused Gore of being hypocritical. But then i guess that just so obvious to everyone that no one needs to point it out. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/11 "2000-11-11T20:23:02Z")
On CNN (TV, not website yet), I just heard that Governor George W. Bush of Texas had signed a bill stating that hand recounts of election results were to be used in preference to machine recounts. ---
**Author:** ![johnson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@johnson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnson)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/12 "2000-11-11T20:26:49Z")
> [@](#): > > What I find slightly more hypocritical is the fact that the Bush camp is discussing calling for recounts in Wisconsin and Iowa. > > Um…isn’t that doing exactly what they accuse Gore of doing? Recounting until they get an outcome they like? Well, no. I’ve not heard many responsible Bush people complain (well, too much) about the one recount. Bush has no reason to ask for a recount in other states if he wins Florida, because then he’s President. But if a Florida recount shows he loses (or, more precisely, the _n_th recount shows he loses), then the other states come into play, and (hopefully just) one recount is perfectly legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/13 "2000-11-11T20:28:33Z")
in a different thread: "CNN is now reporting that in 1997 Bush signed into law a bill in Texas stating that “manual recount shall be preferred to electronic recount”. I’m waiting with utter fascination at the convoluted justifications for THIS, and how it doesn’t _really_make him \*\*the biggest fucking hypocrite now living \*\*. Asmodean: Perhaps no one accuses Gore because Gore has not behaved in a hypocritical fashion. Bummer, huh? stoid ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/14 "2000-11-11T20:33:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homer \* > \*\*Perhaps the Democrats concede defeat and stop demanding recount after recount after recount ad infinitum until the results are in line with the Democrat’s expected or wanted results. Why does the margin creep thinner and thinner at every recount? This is by far the most disgusting display of self interest, greed, and self-serving anti-patriotism that I have ever seen. This makes me fucking sick to watch the Democrats take a big, fat shit on America. > > –Tim \*\* Uh, Tim… hate to rain on your shit parade, but you better check where it’s coming from. There has been ONE complete recount. It was MANDATED BY FLORIDA LAW. The Dems have requested ONE additional recount, which Bushy baby, who TRUSTS us so much, has gone to court to prevent, even though Florida law supports it. Even though Bushybaby signed a Texas law PREFERRING manual recount if there’s a question. Perhaps the margin gets thinner because Floridians actually preferred Gore? Somebody is definitely shitting on America, and it’s the pouting, hypocritical, bitchy, power-mad asshole named Dubya. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/15 "2000-11-11T20:39:47Z")
Texas Election Code Sec. 212.005 provides as follows: > [@](#): > > § 212.005. Multiple Recounts on Same Office or Measure > > ``` > (a) The approval of a petition for a recount does not preclude the submission and approval of another petition on the same office or measure. A petition with respect to a particular office or measure may not be submitted after an initial recount or an expedited recount on the office or measure is completed. > > (b) If more than one recount petition, application for a supplementary recount, or application for including remaining paper ballot precincts is submitted, the recount coordinator shall promptly inform each petitioner or applicant of the submission by the other person. > > (c) Except as provided by Subsection (d), if more than one petition or application is approved, the recount requested by each person shall be conducted at the same time. > > (d) If different counting methods are chosen under Section 214.042(a) among multiple requests for a recount of electronic voting system results, only one method may be used in the recount. **A manual recount shall be conducted in preference to an electronic recount** and an electronic recount using a corrected program shall be conducted in preference to an electronic recount using the same program as the original count. > > ``` > > Acts 1985, 69th Leg., ch. 211, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1986. > > Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1349, § 65, eff. Sept. 1, 1997. (emphasis added). Note that it was amended in 1997, during Governor Bush’s time in office. ---
**Author:** ![Amulet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Amulet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amulet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/16 "2000-11-11T21:00:14Z")
Color me confused, but what exactly do Texas election laws have to do with Florida election laws? After all, it’s the _Florida_ law that Gore & Co have been basing all of this on, no? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/17 "2000-11-11T21:15:48Z")
In [url=http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46117 this thread I made the following remarks: > [@](#): > > I am not amused that the Bush campaign has filed suit in federal court to stop the hand recounts requested by the Gore campaign. > > My bias in this is that I truly believe it is important in a close race that each valid ballot be accurately tallied. > > I am outraged that the Bush campaign is attempting to prevent the most accurate accounting possible of the voters in question. This outrage is only increased by the realization that one of the ballots in question may be my own. > > What truly galls me, though, is the apparent hypocrisy of teh Bush position. This is not a lawsuit begun by private individuals supported by the Bush campaign: the Bush campaign is directly driving this effort. Where is the hypocrisy? > > 1. A campaign that has consistently trumpeted the benefit of allowing states to make their own policy free of federal micro-management is using a federal court to try to override the right of a state to follow its own election laws. > > 2. A campaign that has consistently used the catch phrase “I trust the American people” is refusing to trust American people to accurately and honestly count valid ballots. > > 3. A campaign that expressed outrage when the Gore campaign first raised the idea of sponsoring legal challenges to the electoral process in Florida has been the first to leap into that particular breech. > > 4. There was a hand recount of some ballots in Seminole Couny, a hand recounted that was supported by the Bush campaign and resulted in a gain of 95 votes for Bush. Apparently Bush’s objections to a hand recount only apply to Democratic precints The hypocrisy of the Texas law signed by Bush has already been raised by others. > [@](#): > > As James Baker said, the vote in Florida has been counted. It’s been re-counted. Now they want to take it to a step that will be less accurate, and can only cause mistakes/fraud that favors Gore. It’s bullshit. What’s bullshit is this statement. The procedure for a manual count has provisions in place to minimize both mistakes and any opportunity for fraud. You can see them outlined in the thread linked above. > [@](#): > > They never, ever before counted the kinds of ballots the Democrats want them to count now. This is also bullshit. There have been manual recounts before in both Florida and other states. There are manual counts occurring now in New Mexico, with the blessings of the Bush campaign. There were manual recounts conducted in Seminole county days ago, conducted with the blessings of the Bush campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/18 "2000-11-11T21:20:42Z")
[corrected link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=46117) [sub]my kingdom for an edit feature[/sub] Oh, and Amulet: > [@](#): > > Color me confused, but what exactly do Texas election laws have to do with Florida election laws? After all, it’s the Florida law that Gore & Co have been basing all of this on, no? The relevance is that it demonstrates yet another level of hypocrisy in Bush’s position that hand recounts are inherently less accurate than machine counts **since he signed into law the Texas statute giving preference to manual recounts over machine recounts**. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/19 "2000-11-11T21:31:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Amulet \* > \*\*Color me confused, but what exactly do Texas election laws have to do with Florida election laws? After all, it’s the _Florida_ law that Gore & Co have been basing all of this on, no? \*\* The relevance of the Texas statute I quoted above is not in itself relevant to the vote contest going on now in Florida. Rather, the it is relevant to the lawsuit that the Bush campaign just filed, which asserts that a manual recount would somehow diminish the accuracy or constitutionality of the vote. It is relevant because this law, the amendment to which was signed by Governor Bush, shows the hypocracy of the Bush campaign’s statements in the suit. ---
**Author:** ![Amulet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4491bb/32.png) [@Amulet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amulet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2000, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802/20 "2000-11-11T23:00:24Z")
In order for the hypocrisy charge to stick, the ballots and counting mechanisms have to be identical in both states. I don’t know what the ballots in Texas look like, or how the machine reads them, so it is very possible that what would make sense in one area would not make sense in another. (I am displeased with this development, however. Don’t get me wrong, I’m just not sure if the accusation of hypocrisy holds true.) However, would this not make Daley and Jackson front line hypocrites, too, for protesting as ‘confusing’ a ballot nearly identical to the one they used in Illinois? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-republicans-are-fucking-hypocrites/40802.md?page=2)